1
00:00:34,370 --> 00:00:03,889
[Music]

2
00:00:34,380 --> 00:00:39,430
foreign

3
00:00:44,630 --> 00:00:42,709
to the channel it is great to be here I

4
00:00:46,010 --> 00:00:44,640
am really looking forward to this

5
00:00:47,930 --> 00:00:46,020
conversation this is something that's

6
00:00:50,690 --> 00:00:47,940
been a long time coming and I'm just

7
00:00:52,670 --> 00:00:50,700
overwhelmed and really happy that Diana

8
00:00:55,069 --> 00:00:52,680
is here today

9
00:00:56,689 --> 00:00:55,079
um I've had so many questions sent to me

10
00:00:59,270 --> 00:00:56,699
via all my different social media

11
00:01:01,069 --> 00:00:59,280
platforms and by email if anybody here

12
00:01:02,869 --> 00:01:01,079
in the live chat does have a question if

13
00:01:05,929 --> 00:01:02,879
you could pop it in capital letters so

14
00:01:08,450 --> 00:01:05,939
that I'm more likely to to see it and I

15
00:01:10,670 --> 00:01:08,460
will try to ask it but I can't make any

16
00:01:12,530 --> 00:01:10,680
promises I'm sure you understand

17
00:01:14,990 --> 00:01:12,540
so yep if you could keep the chat

18
00:01:17,749 --> 00:01:15,000
cordial and polite that would be good

19
00:01:20,149 --> 00:01:17,759
also so let's get started I'll just

20
00:01:21,830 --> 00:01:20,159
introduce Our Guest today so Diana walls

21
00:01:23,270 --> 00:01:21,840
pasoka is Professor of religious history

22
00:01:25,550 --> 00:01:23,280
at the University of North Carolina

23
00:01:27,469 --> 00:01:25,560
Wilmington after completing her

24
00:01:29,569 --> 00:01:27,479
undergraduate work at the University of

25
00:01:31,490 --> 00:01:29,579
California Davis she earned a master's

26
00:01:34,010 --> 00:01:31,500
degree in Systematic Theology from The

27
00:01:36,230 --> 00:01:34,020
Graduate theological Union in Berkeley

28
00:01:37,730 --> 00:01:36,240
and later went on to receive a doctorate

29
00:01:40,310 --> 00:01:37,740
in religious studies from Syracuse

30
00:01:42,109 --> 00:01:40,320
University she served as head religion

31
00:01:44,030 --> 00:01:42,119
advisor for the films The Conjuring and

32
00:01:45,649 --> 00:01:44,040
The Conjuring 2 and has received

33
00:01:47,929 --> 00:01:45,659
numerous grants and awards for research

34
00:01:50,690 --> 00:01:47,939
and applied learning including sums from

35
00:01:53,149 --> 00:01:50,700
the esselen center in 2016 for research

36
00:01:55,550 --> 00:01:53,159
at Castel Gandolfo's Vatican Observatory

37
00:01:57,289 --> 00:01:55,560
and in 2018 for ongoing research

38
00:01:59,810 --> 00:01:57,299
involving the Vatican and the Vatican

39
00:02:02,090 --> 00:01:59,820
archives she is the author of two books

40
00:02:04,550 --> 00:02:02,100
Heaven Can Wait purgatory and Catholic

41
00:02:07,069 --> 00:02:04,560
devotional and popular culture and

42
00:02:09,770 --> 00:02:07,079
American Cosmic UFOs religion and

43
00:02:12,290 --> 00:02:09,780
Technology please welcome Diana Walsh

44
00:02:13,729 --> 00:02:12,300
pasulka Diana how are you doing I'm

45
00:02:15,170 --> 00:02:13,739
doing well Vinnie thanks so much for

46
00:02:17,089 --> 00:02:15,180
having me on your show

47
00:02:19,369 --> 00:02:17,099
uh it's an honor it really is thank you

48
00:02:21,530 --> 00:02:19,379
so much for being here now I thought

49
00:02:23,990 --> 00:02:21,540
we'd kick it off with kind of a a broad

50
00:02:26,449 --> 00:02:24,000
question I'd like to know how you feel

51
00:02:30,110 --> 00:02:26,459
or how you see the UFO subject as a

52
00:02:32,030 --> 00:02:30,120
whole now in 2022 compared to 10 years

53
00:02:35,270 --> 00:02:32,040
ago in 2012 when you first sort of

54
00:02:38,390 --> 00:02:35,280
entered this strange Realm this is such

55
00:02:41,509 --> 00:02:38,400
a great question so I see it entirely

56
00:02:45,410 --> 00:02:41,519
differently so I think all of us do who

57
00:02:48,110 --> 00:02:45,420
follow the you know UFO UAP

58
00:02:50,390 --> 00:02:48,120
um disclosure movement and just in

59
00:02:53,750 --> 00:02:50,400
general everything is different the

60
00:02:55,850 --> 00:02:53,760
landscape has changed entirely today

61
00:02:58,550 --> 00:02:55,860
earlier I was actually speaking with

62
00:03:00,589 --> 00:02:58,560
some people at my University who now

63
00:03:02,210 --> 00:03:00,599
they're very interested in my research

64
00:03:04,250 --> 00:03:02,220
they've I mean I've always been a good

65
00:03:05,690 --> 00:03:04,260
standing at my University and I think

66
00:03:07,610 --> 00:03:05,700
now with everything that's happened

67
00:03:10,250 --> 00:03:07,620
they're like wait a minute what is she

68
00:03:13,930 --> 00:03:10,260
doing and so I was speaking to a number

69
00:03:17,449 --> 00:03:13,940
of people who were in positions of

70
00:03:20,030 --> 00:03:17,459
assessing research I've one you know uh

71
00:03:21,949 --> 00:03:20,040
the the best Grant at my university for

72
00:03:24,290 --> 00:03:21,959
research and you know things like that

73
00:03:26,089 --> 00:03:24,300
and um but they needed they really

74
00:03:28,070 --> 00:03:26,099
wanted kind of an overview of what was

75
00:03:30,289 --> 00:03:28,080
going on so I sent them a bunch of

76
00:03:31,729 --> 00:03:30,299
information last week and then today I

77
00:03:35,149 --> 00:03:31,739
met with them

78
00:03:37,309 --> 00:03:35,159
um and they just asked you know wow why

79
00:03:39,410 --> 00:03:37,319
you know why is this happening now why

80
00:03:42,229 --> 00:03:39,420
is you know the why is the government of

81
00:03:44,690 --> 00:03:42,239
the United States talking about this and

82
00:03:46,130 --> 00:03:44,700
why you know your book came out right at

83
00:03:48,830 --> 00:03:46,140
the beginning of something that seemed

84
00:03:51,170 --> 00:03:48,840
like it was a wave and did it have

85
00:03:53,149 --> 00:03:51,180
anything to do with that and you know

86
00:03:55,490 --> 00:03:53,159
what do we think about this now you know

87
00:03:56,929 --> 00:03:55,500
do you do you believe in it and you

88
00:03:59,210 --> 00:03:56,939
started your work where you know you're

89
00:04:00,949 --> 00:03:59,220
atheists with respect to it and you know

90
00:04:03,530 --> 00:04:00,959
how does it how does the landscape look

91
00:04:06,229 --> 00:04:03,540
for you so literally I just came from

92
00:04:08,690 --> 00:04:06,239
that meeting to this uh conversation

93
00:04:10,130 --> 00:04:08,700
with you and this is the question I

94
00:04:12,410 --> 00:04:10,140
think this is the the most important

95
00:04:14,690 --> 00:04:12,420
question to ask uh what is you know

96
00:04:17,090 --> 00:04:14,700
what's happening now why is it big now

97
00:04:20,449 --> 00:04:17,100
why are people talking about it

98
00:04:23,629 --> 00:04:20,459
um I think because and my answer was and

99
00:04:25,249 --> 00:04:23,639
will be for you here is what I see is

100
00:04:27,590 --> 00:04:25,259
that

101
00:04:29,629 --> 00:04:27,600
um we have to talk about it now uh we

102
00:04:31,790 --> 00:04:29,639
have no choice especially our government

103
00:04:33,830 --> 00:04:31,800
and governments that are allied with the

104
00:04:36,290 --> 00:04:33,840
United States especially with respect to

105
00:04:38,450 --> 00:04:36,300
the space programs and I answer it

106
00:04:40,969 --> 00:04:38,460
because I answer it this way because of

107
00:04:44,090 --> 00:04:40,979
this these facts

108
00:04:46,129 --> 00:04:44,100
um when we started to look into space

109
00:04:48,110 --> 00:04:46,139
and we developed rocket technology to

110
00:04:51,290 --> 00:04:48,120
take us into space there were really

111
00:04:53,990 --> 00:04:51,300
only two viable space programs ours and

112
00:04:56,810 --> 00:04:54,000
Russia's now we have so many different

113
00:04:59,270 --> 00:04:56,820
countries who have technologies that are

114
00:05:01,850 --> 00:04:59,280
getting people into space and we have

115
00:05:04,129 --> 00:05:01,860
China's space program so you know and

116
00:05:05,990 --> 00:05:04,139
these are not necessarily allies right

117
00:05:08,510 --> 00:05:06,000
so I'm not saying that we're an

118
00:05:10,310 --> 00:05:08,520
adversarial uh you know arrangements

119
00:05:12,290 --> 00:05:10,320
with them with respect to space but

120
00:05:14,810 --> 00:05:12,300
they're going to be seen in space what

121
00:05:17,990 --> 00:05:14,820
we've been seeing all along and we can

122
00:05:20,990 --> 00:05:18,000
no longer say this is not happening and

123
00:05:22,670 --> 00:05:21,000
I think that that so my answer is we

124
00:05:24,490 --> 00:05:22,680
have to talk about this now because

125
00:05:27,469 --> 00:05:24,500
other countries are going to start

126
00:05:29,689 --> 00:05:27,479
showing and talking and I think the

127
00:05:31,909 --> 00:05:29,699
United States had knew they needed to

128
00:05:33,350 --> 00:05:31,919
get on top of it so that's my my answer

129
00:05:35,090 --> 00:05:33,360
to that question I see it completely

130
00:05:37,430 --> 00:05:35,100
differently I also see a lot of

131
00:05:40,430 --> 00:05:37,440
Grassroots movement you know with people

132
00:05:43,029 --> 00:05:40,440
with technology cell phones

133
00:05:45,890 --> 00:05:43,039
um the ability to upload uh information

134
00:05:48,650 --> 00:05:45,900
uh instantaneously and have people on

135
00:05:50,990 --> 00:05:48,660
the other side of the world see it and a

136
00:05:53,689 --> 00:05:51,000
lot of the you know the social media

137
00:05:55,189 --> 00:05:53,699
platforms not having a handle on that

138
00:05:57,110 --> 00:05:55,199
not being able to control that

139
00:05:59,390 --> 00:05:57,120
information so I think a lot of the

140
00:06:02,210 --> 00:05:59,400
information is already just going to get

141
00:06:05,510 --> 00:06:02,220
out there and uh therefore a

142
00:06:07,909 --> 00:06:05,520
transparency is now

143
00:06:10,969 --> 00:06:07,919
um necessary right so there has to be

144
00:06:13,430 --> 00:06:10,979
some amount of transparency uh with

145
00:06:15,529 --> 00:06:13,440
respect to the fact that people are

146
00:06:17,749 --> 00:06:15,539
seeing things that aren't drones you

147
00:06:21,050 --> 00:06:17,759
know people are seeing things that can't

148
00:06:22,909 --> 00:06:21,060
be uh you know put into the categories

149
00:06:25,430 --> 00:06:22,919
that we've put them in in terms of

150
00:06:28,129 --> 00:06:25,440
things in the sky so I think that that

151
00:06:30,890 --> 00:06:28,139
it's just a completely different scene

152
00:06:32,390 --> 00:06:30,900
than it was just 10 years ago even just

153
00:06:34,969 --> 00:06:32,400
five years ago

154
00:06:36,590 --> 00:06:34,979
yeah absolutely I completely agree but

155
00:06:38,990 --> 00:06:36,600
when it comes to actually understanding

156
00:06:41,090 --> 00:06:39,000
what the phenomenon represents you know

157
00:06:43,610 --> 00:06:41,100
one thing that I'm glad to see is that

158
00:06:45,830 --> 00:06:43,620
experiences are getting a lot more

159
00:06:47,150 --> 00:06:45,840
um attention you know like as they

160
00:06:49,490 --> 00:06:47,160
should I believe

161
00:06:51,469 --> 00:06:49,500
um but when you actually delve into the

162
00:06:53,930 --> 00:06:51,479
many many cases whether it be abductions

163
00:06:56,749 --> 00:06:53,940
sightings or other kinds of experience

164
00:07:00,710 --> 00:06:56,759
there seems to be such a vast array of

165
00:07:02,450 --> 00:07:00,720
what's been seen and experienced so does

166
00:07:05,510 --> 00:07:02,460
that in a way point to the possibility

167
00:07:07,909 --> 00:07:05,520
of multiple phenomena in you know being

168
00:07:10,370 --> 00:07:07,919
here what do you think about it yeah so

169
00:07:12,529 --> 00:07:10,380
I mean that's that's why I think that

170
00:07:15,050 --> 00:07:12,539
the research that people are doing not

171
00:07:17,150 --> 00:07:15,060
just me now you know into historical

172
00:07:19,550 --> 00:07:17,160
records you know the people who have the

173
00:07:22,309 --> 00:07:19,560
the training basically to go to The

174
00:07:25,150 --> 00:07:22,319
Archives of uh Japan

175
00:07:28,610 --> 00:07:25,160
um that's happening big now uh in Japan

176
00:07:32,089 --> 00:07:28,620
and China and you know the historical

177
00:07:34,010 --> 00:07:32,099
records of these traditions and which

178
00:07:36,469 --> 00:07:34,020
you know have been religious Traditions

179
00:07:38,689 --> 00:07:36,479
right so you see a lot of this stuff in

180
00:07:41,089 --> 00:07:38,699
the scriptures and sutras of these

181
00:07:44,270 --> 00:07:41,099
various worlds of religions

182
00:07:46,369 --> 00:07:44,280
um Okay so yeah I think personally that

183
00:07:48,110 --> 00:07:46,379
it looks like a variety of phenomena but

184
00:07:51,110 --> 00:07:48,120
I also think that you can see a

185
00:07:52,490 --> 00:07:51,120
historical trajectory of certain types

186
00:07:53,869 --> 00:07:52,500
of narratives like the abduction

187
00:07:56,450 --> 00:07:53,879
narrative

188
00:07:59,270 --> 00:07:56,460
um especially this is what basically

189
00:08:04,369 --> 00:07:59,280
changed the way I viewed this phenomena

190
00:08:07,249 --> 00:08:04,379
in 2012 and 2013 when I just finished a

191
00:08:08,869 --> 00:08:07,259
book on the doctrine of purgatory and

192
00:08:11,029 --> 00:08:08,879
I'd literally just been immersed in

193
00:08:13,249 --> 00:08:11,039
archival research for many many years

194
00:08:15,710 --> 00:08:13,259
and other you know what eight years it

195
00:08:17,869 --> 00:08:15,720
took to do that research and you know I

196
00:08:19,730 --> 00:08:17,879
I was a non-believer and UFOs hadn't

197
00:08:21,770 --> 00:08:19,740
even thought about them but I kept

198
00:08:24,110 --> 00:08:21,780
coming across records of people who had

199
00:08:25,430 --> 00:08:24,120
these experiences that literally looked

200
00:08:27,650 --> 00:08:25,440
like they could have been taken out of

201
00:08:29,689 --> 00:08:27,660
John Mack's book but I had never read

202
00:08:32,389 --> 00:08:29,699
his book I had never read abduction

203
00:08:34,430 --> 00:08:32,399
human encounters with aliens had never

204
00:08:37,130 --> 00:08:34,440
even thought to read it and so I had

205
00:08:38,750 --> 00:08:37,140
already been immersed in these kinds of

206
00:08:41,389 --> 00:08:38,760
um what you would call what we would

207
00:08:43,310 --> 00:08:41,399
call today experience or narratives uh

208
00:08:45,290 --> 00:08:43,320
but I'm looking at the them from the

209
00:08:48,110 --> 00:08:45,300
standpoint of Catholic history well I

210
00:08:50,090 --> 00:08:48,120
had a huge log of these things and so

211
00:08:52,070 --> 00:08:50,100
when a colleague suggested that this

212
00:08:54,650 --> 00:08:52,080
looked like Steven Spielberg's you know

213
00:08:58,550 --> 00:08:54,660
alien phenomena I thought he was crazy

214
00:09:00,170 --> 00:08:58,560
but I went back and I did the the you

215
00:09:02,449 --> 00:09:00,180
know the primary source research again

216
00:09:04,509 --> 00:09:02,459
and then with this knowledge went to the

217
00:09:07,550 --> 00:09:04,519
Vatican and I saw a lot of information

218
00:09:09,650 --> 00:09:07,560
at the Vatican uh archive it's called

219
00:09:11,269 --> 00:09:09,660
The Secret archive but it's actually not

220
00:09:13,610 --> 00:09:11,279
necessarily a secret it's just really

221
00:09:17,750 --> 00:09:13,620
hard to get into and it's the it's the

222
00:09:20,449 --> 00:09:17,760
Pope's you know personal Archive of you

223
00:09:24,230 --> 00:09:20,459
know you know a thousand years or more

224
00:09:26,030 --> 00:09:24,240
of information and it's it's it's a

225
00:09:28,190 --> 00:09:26,040
treasure Trove and I also went to the

226
00:09:30,889 --> 00:09:28,200
space of Observatory with this framework

227
00:09:32,030 --> 00:09:30,899
in mind and then I was you know I could

228
00:09:34,490 --> 00:09:32,040
see that there was a historical

229
00:09:36,170 --> 00:09:34,500
narrative that we still see now let me

230
00:09:39,230 --> 00:09:36,180
say a few things

231
00:09:41,930 --> 00:09:39,240
a lot of people who are like Pilots or

232
00:09:44,329 --> 00:09:41,940
you know who are you know your average

233
00:09:46,790 --> 00:09:44,339
person you know who who happens to be up

234
00:09:49,730 --> 00:09:46,800
in the sky doing you know doing what

235
00:09:51,889 --> 00:09:49,740
they do uh doing pilot work or being on

236
00:09:54,230 --> 00:09:51,899
radar or something like that these are

237
00:09:55,850 --> 00:09:54,240
people who would never say that the UFO

238
00:09:58,490 --> 00:09:55,860
phenomena has anything to do with

239
00:10:00,530 --> 00:09:58,500
spirituality or religion okay however

240
00:10:02,930 --> 00:10:00,540
when you look at the people who've had

241
00:10:05,870 --> 00:10:02,940
some of these experiences and I I take

242
00:10:07,670 --> 00:10:05,880
Kenneth Arnold because he is a pilot

243
00:10:10,490 --> 00:10:07,680
he's he's one of the people that made

244
00:10:11,930 --> 00:10:10,500
the term Flying Saucer uh known

245
00:10:14,329 --> 00:10:11,940
throughout the world

246
00:10:16,490 --> 00:10:14,339
um in 1947 here he's going you know he's

247
00:10:19,910 --> 00:10:16,500
a pilot he's he's flying over Mount

248
00:10:22,130 --> 00:10:19,920
Rainier and he sees uh a bunch of these

249
00:10:23,810 --> 00:10:22,140
things flying in formation and you know

250
00:10:26,870 --> 00:10:23,820
a lot of people think okay that's your

251
00:10:30,290 --> 00:10:26,880
nuts and bolts type of E.T right that's

252
00:10:32,090 --> 00:10:30,300
your nuts and bolts spacecraft but if

253
00:10:36,110 --> 00:10:32,100
you actually go and do the research

254
00:10:38,870 --> 00:10:36,120
where you look into his what he does and

255
00:10:40,670 --> 00:10:38,880
what he did and what he experienced he

256
00:10:42,710 --> 00:10:40,680
actually brings it back to a religious

257
00:10:45,230 --> 00:10:42,720
standpoint he thinks of these things as

258
00:10:48,110 --> 00:10:45,240
kind of like ezekiel's wheel and he

259
00:10:49,490 --> 00:10:48,120
believed that they were maybe alive and

260
00:10:52,310 --> 00:10:49,500
that they you know there's a lot of

261
00:10:55,009 --> 00:10:52,320
paranormal Supernatural

262
00:10:56,990 --> 00:10:55,019
um aspects to his sighting so I always

263
00:10:58,610 --> 00:10:57,000
bring it back to you know when I get

264
00:11:00,050 --> 00:10:58,620
when a lot of people say well no it

265
00:11:03,170 --> 00:11:00,060
really has nothing to do with that I say

266
00:11:04,670 --> 00:11:03,180
look again you know look again at the

267
00:11:06,290 --> 00:11:04,680
you know what people are saying about

268
00:11:08,449 --> 00:11:06,300
these some people just have random

269
00:11:10,550 --> 00:11:08,459
experiences of Aero phenomena you know

270
00:11:12,710 --> 00:11:10,560
absolutely that's the case some people

271
00:11:15,050 --> 00:11:12,720
don't some people have experiences that

272
00:11:17,630 --> 00:11:15,060
change them change their world view and

273
00:11:19,210 --> 00:11:17,640
also include Supernatural or paranormal

274
00:11:21,170 --> 00:11:19,220
aspects

275
00:11:23,569 --> 00:11:21,180
interesting and you mentioned there

276
00:11:24,710 --> 00:11:23,579
ezekiel's will and now isn't am I right

277
00:11:27,230 --> 00:11:24,720
saying that it's actually some

278
00:11:29,930 --> 00:11:27,240
connection with angels when it comes to

279
00:11:30,829 --> 00:11:29,940
oh yeah so when you yeah so this is what

280
00:11:33,170 --> 00:11:30,839
I found

281
00:11:36,230 --> 00:11:33,180
um when I looked back before I even

282
00:11:38,750 --> 00:11:36,240
thought about UFOs a lot of the aerial

283
00:11:42,110 --> 00:11:38,760
phenomena that was recorded in Catholic

284
00:11:44,269 --> 00:11:42,120
history was either seen they were either

285
00:11:46,490 --> 00:11:44,279
seen as Angels sometimes they were even

286
00:11:48,110 --> 00:11:46,500
called Flying houses

287
00:11:50,870 --> 00:11:48,120
um often they were

288
00:11:54,470 --> 00:11:50,880
um identified as Souls from purgatory

289
00:11:57,290 --> 00:11:54,480
and a lot of the the pictures and

290
00:11:59,090 --> 00:11:57,300
paintings and artistic representations

291
00:12:01,910 --> 00:11:59,100
of them

292
00:12:03,470 --> 00:12:01,920
um are very strange looking so when you

293
00:12:04,910 --> 00:12:03,480
when you look at them you're like that

294
00:12:07,190 --> 00:12:04,920
doesn't necessarily look like an angel

295
00:12:09,590 --> 00:12:07,200
right or you know what we perceive to be

296
00:12:11,449 --> 00:12:09,600
an angel I mean again my research had to

297
00:12:13,129 --> 00:12:11,459
ask you know I had to ask you know well

298
00:12:14,389 --> 00:12:13,139
what is an angel anyway you know when

299
00:12:16,550 --> 00:12:14,399
you go back and you look through the

300
00:12:18,829 --> 00:12:16,560
Bible you start to see different ways

301
00:12:21,110 --> 00:12:18,839
that angels are represented and then you

302
00:12:23,810 --> 00:12:21,120
realize is that even that's not a

303
00:12:26,150 --> 00:12:23,820
uniform phenomenon right Angels don't

304
00:12:28,730 --> 00:12:26,160
look like you know tall blonde people

305
00:12:30,050 --> 00:12:28,740
with wings you know and as much as we

306
00:12:31,550 --> 00:12:30,060
want them to

307
00:12:33,350 --> 00:12:31,560
um they are weird looking and some of

308
00:12:35,449 --> 00:12:33,360
them do look human right some of them

309
00:12:38,150 --> 00:12:35,459
are represented as human and many of

310
00:12:40,850 --> 00:12:38,160
them aren't so I think that we have to

311
00:12:42,829 --> 00:12:40,860
uh do this by Case by case really we

312
00:12:46,730 --> 00:12:42,839
have to just be better researchers of

313
00:12:48,769 --> 00:12:46,740
this and not use a wide lens to say this

314
00:12:50,870 --> 00:12:48,779
is what all UFOs are like or this is

315
00:12:54,110 --> 00:12:50,880
what all you know but I can honestly say

316
00:12:55,610 --> 00:12:54,120
that that abduction narrative goes back

317
00:12:57,829 --> 00:12:55,620
goes back

318
00:12:59,629 --> 00:12:57,839
yeah indeed one case that I heard you

319
00:13:01,430 --> 00:12:59,639
speaking about recently historically is

320
00:13:03,590 --> 00:13:01,440
the Saint Francis of Assisi case and I

321
00:13:05,210 --> 00:13:03,600
just wondered if you could kind of talk

322
00:13:07,430 --> 00:13:05,220
us through that and give us the kind of

323
00:13:11,030 --> 00:13:07,440
comparisons to sort of more modern UFO

324
00:13:12,889 --> 00:13:11,040
sightings yeah so um same so um I don't

325
00:13:15,650 --> 00:13:12,899
know if any of your listeners had seen

326
00:13:19,129 --> 00:13:15,660
the rice uh University conference

327
00:13:21,170 --> 00:13:19,139
Jacques valet gave the address and he

328
00:13:23,690 --> 00:13:21,180
used the research I had actually given

329
00:13:24,949 --> 00:13:23,700
him that research and and said Jacques

330
00:13:26,329 --> 00:13:24,959
you got to look at this again because

331
00:13:28,670 --> 00:13:26,339
you know Jacques comes from a Catholic

332
00:13:29,990 --> 00:13:28,680
background and he knows this but he

333
00:13:32,449 --> 00:13:30,000
didn't have any of the primary source

334
00:13:36,769 --> 00:13:32,459
material and so

335
00:13:39,110 --> 00:13:36,779
um so Saint Francis of Assisi is a saint

336
00:13:42,069 --> 00:13:39,120
um the page I mean probably the most

337
00:13:45,470 --> 00:13:42,079
well-known Saint in Catholic history

338
00:13:48,410 --> 00:13:45,480
represented often as a person who is in

339
00:13:50,030 --> 00:13:48,420
a garden and attracts

340
00:13:53,389 --> 00:13:50,040
um animals

341
00:13:56,030 --> 00:13:53,399
um one of the most beloved Saints of all

342
00:13:58,550 --> 00:13:56,040
of Catholic saints almost ever everyone

343
00:14:01,310 --> 00:13:58,560
even atheists know who Saint Francis of

344
00:14:03,949 --> 00:14:01,320
assisias our current pope has named

345
00:14:06,170 --> 00:14:03,959
himself Francis after Francis of Assisi

346
00:14:07,850 --> 00:14:06,180
okay so that's kind of setting the stage

347
00:14:08,689 --> 00:14:07,860
for him

348
00:14:11,930 --> 00:14:08,699
um

349
00:14:15,050 --> 00:14:11,940
he had a life where he lived

350
00:14:19,790 --> 00:14:15,060
um to you know he had a calling he lived

351
00:14:22,910 --> 00:14:19,800
with in a community of Brothers okay he

352
00:14:24,650 --> 00:14:22,920
had not founded The Franciscan order it

353
00:14:27,290 --> 00:14:24,660
was named after him that's an order of

354
00:14:30,230 --> 00:14:27,300
monks so he already lived in a life of

355
00:14:32,389 --> 00:14:30,240
prayer and you know trying to evangelize

356
00:14:35,990 --> 00:14:32,399
and do what he thought was right within

357
00:14:39,230 --> 00:14:36,000
his um you know his meal you

358
00:14:42,370 --> 00:14:39,240
um he's Italian and he's living so this

359
00:14:48,170 --> 00:14:42,380
happens to him so this is in uh 1200s

360
00:14:51,410 --> 00:14:48,180
and he's going to go to pray and he and

361
00:14:53,449 --> 00:14:51,420
his friend brother Leo are going to the

362
00:14:55,310 --> 00:14:53,459
mountain a mountain and they're going to

363
00:14:57,650 --> 00:14:55,320
pray for the Feast of the archangels

364
00:15:00,050 --> 00:14:57,660
which is kind of ironic actually so he's

365
00:15:02,689 --> 00:15:00,060
gonna do this and he's he's fasted and

366
00:15:05,449 --> 00:15:02,699
he's prepared himself and he goes to do

367
00:15:08,629 --> 00:15:05,459
this and what happens is that something

368
00:15:11,990 --> 00:15:08,639
kind of crashes in through the skies

369
00:15:16,129 --> 00:15:12,000
with a lot of Sparks and light and it

370
00:15:19,790 --> 00:15:16,139
comes down and it basically zaps him

371
00:15:20,650 --> 00:15:19,800
with something that opens up

372
00:15:25,550 --> 00:15:20,660
um

373
00:15:28,490 --> 00:15:25,560
wounds in his body and he later dies

374
00:15:32,389 --> 00:15:28,500
okay and um like within two years he's

375
00:15:36,050 --> 00:15:32,399
he passes away in agony if I might add

376
00:15:38,030 --> 00:15:36,060
okay so and brother Leo tends to him now

377
00:15:42,710 --> 00:15:38,040
I looked at that and I looked at the

378
00:15:46,129 --> 00:15:42,720
various representations of this uh event

379
00:15:48,290 --> 00:15:46,139
and this was after I had gone through

380
00:15:50,329 --> 00:15:48,300
this experience of recognizing that a

381
00:15:53,090 --> 00:15:50,339
lot of the Aero phenomena within

382
00:15:56,389 --> 00:15:53,100
Catholic history you know if you go to

383
00:15:58,610 --> 00:15:56,399
the original sources that describe it it

384
00:16:00,829 --> 00:15:58,620
never really looks like the artistic

385
00:16:03,290 --> 00:16:00,839
representations of them the same thing

386
00:16:05,689 --> 00:16:03,300
with Teresa of Avila she had an

387
00:16:07,550 --> 00:16:05,699
experience with what she didn't think

388
00:16:09,650 --> 00:16:07,560
was an angel but then came to she said

389
00:16:11,629 --> 00:16:09,660
okay I think this is an angel but it was

390
00:16:14,090 --> 00:16:11,639
a small being that was about three feet

391
00:16:16,670 --> 00:16:14,100
tall so again so you have to actually

392
00:16:18,949 --> 00:16:16,680
then go back try to find the written

393
00:16:21,590 --> 00:16:18,959
document of the earliest representation

394
00:16:23,990 --> 00:16:21,600
of this and read it so that's what I did

395
00:16:26,030 --> 00:16:24,000
I did some research and I found some of

396
00:16:30,050 --> 00:16:26,040
the earliest material that talked about

397
00:16:32,210 --> 00:16:30,060
Saint Francis of masses of assisi's

398
00:16:35,030 --> 00:16:32,220
um Angel experience right because it was

399
00:16:35,810 --> 00:16:35,040
portrayed as an angel experience and in

400
00:16:38,269 --> 00:16:35,820
fact

401
00:16:40,370 --> 00:16:38,279
this experience is considered to be the

402
00:16:43,189 --> 00:16:40,380
first occasion of What's called the

403
00:16:45,829 --> 00:16:43,199
Stigmata which is called the wounds of

404
00:16:47,509 --> 00:16:45,839
Christ within Catholic tradition people

405
00:16:48,949 --> 00:16:47,519
you've you've probably seen it because

406
00:16:52,490 --> 00:16:48,959
it's represented in a lot of movies

407
00:16:54,290 --> 00:16:52,500
where Saints will have you know

408
00:16:56,629 --> 00:16:54,300
um wounds you know

409
00:16:58,430 --> 00:16:56,639
of Christ you know Jesus was crucified

410
00:17:00,650 --> 00:16:58,440
so he has these winds and they will

411
00:17:04,130 --> 00:17:00,660
appear on on people

412
00:17:06,829 --> 00:17:04,140
um literally it's actually here and here

413
00:17:10,130 --> 00:17:06,839
that it was that it was uh done so

414
00:17:12,650 --> 00:17:10,140
Francis his wounds get interpreted as

415
00:17:14,929 --> 00:17:12,660
the Winds of Jesus

416
00:17:17,569 --> 00:17:14,939
um if you read the actual primary source

417
00:17:19,970 --> 00:17:17,579
material uh your your listeners will no

418
00:17:23,390 --> 00:17:19,980
doubt be familiar with Dr Gary Nolan's

419
00:17:25,130 --> 00:17:23,400
research okay and Dr Nolan is actually

420
00:17:27,829 --> 00:17:25,140
James in my book I can say that now

421
00:17:31,850 --> 00:17:27,839
because he came out and said that he was

422
00:17:33,770 --> 00:17:31,860
in my book American Cosmic he is the

423
00:17:34,730 --> 00:17:33,780
scientist that I bring with me to New

424
00:17:37,250 --> 00:17:34,740
Mexico

425
00:17:39,049 --> 00:17:37,260
and so I was very familiar in fact

426
00:17:41,930 --> 00:17:39,059
terrified by the research that he was

427
00:17:43,669 --> 00:17:41,940
doing because he was doing research in a

428
00:17:44,690 --> 00:17:43,679
lot of these abduction narratives and

429
00:17:48,710 --> 00:17:44,700
also

430
00:17:51,110 --> 00:17:48,720
um abduction events and a lot of the

431
00:17:55,130 --> 00:17:51,120
research he did especially with Dr kit

432
00:17:56,570 --> 00:17:55,140
crane uh Christopher Greene was in this

433
00:17:58,789 --> 00:17:56,580
type of

434
00:18:01,370 --> 00:17:58,799
zapping that goes on

435
00:18:03,950 --> 00:18:01,380
um this type of um

436
00:18:07,430 --> 00:18:03,960
uh almost like a radiation burn that

437
00:18:09,710 --> 00:18:07,440
people get when they are exposed to this

438
00:18:13,250 --> 00:18:09,720
phenomena so I looked back and I

439
00:18:16,370 --> 00:18:13,260
wondered if perhaps this had happened to

440
00:18:19,310 --> 00:18:16,380
Francis of Assisi so what I did was I

441
00:18:21,470 --> 00:18:19,320
sent the original primary sources to

442
00:18:23,090 --> 00:18:21,480
well it looked really weird let's put it

443
00:18:25,610 --> 00:18:23,100
that way when you look at the what

444
00:18:28,669 --> 00:18:25,620
happened and as brother Leo describes it

445
00:18:32,690 --> 00:18:28,679
to somebody who writes it down in Latin

446
00:18:36,830 --> 00:18:32,700
what you see is that this whatever comes

447
00:18:40,850 --> 00:18:36,840
through the the uh atmosphere comes

448
00:18:44,450 --> 00:18:40,860
through with a lot of sound and and kind

449
00:18:46,610 --> 00:18:44,460
of Fury so that it seems to have

450
00:18:50,870 --> 00:18:46,620
produced a lot of different colored

451
00:18:54,830 --> 00:18:50,880
Sparks and Atmospheric phenomena that

452
00:18:57,950 --> 00:18:54,840
was observed by brother Leo and the

453
00:19:00,110 --> 00:18:57,960
being that was within this spinning disc

454
00:19:01,789 --> 00:19:00,120
that they see

455
00:19:04,070 --> 00:19:01,799
um that he doesn't necessarily call

456
00:19:06,650 --> 00:19:04,080
Jesus but then gets interpreted as Jesus

457
00:19:09,169 --> 00:19:06,660
he says he sees a big eye come out and

458
00:19:11,150 --> 00:19:09,179
take a look at him right and that it

459
00:19:14,450 --> 00:19:11,160
appears that Francis is having some type

460
00:19:18,529 --> 00:19:14,460
of of um telepathic communication with

461
00:19:22,909 --> 00:19:18,539
it and then these beams of light go boom

462
00:19:25,789 --> 00:19:22,919
and uh Francis is then wounded okay so

463
00:19:28,909 --> 00:19:25,799
that's what it says uh what gets done

464
00:19:32,630 --> 00:19:28,919
later then is it's taken up as you know

465
00:19:34,549 --> 00:19:32,640
Francis is a holy person and it it's you

466
00:19:36,470 --> 00:19:34,559
know interpreted in a very Catholic way

467
00:19:39,409 --> 00:19:36,480
I am Catholic so

468
00:19:40,549 --> 00:19:39,419
um just to be full fully transparent

469
00:19:44,090 --> 00:19:40,559
here

470
00:19:45,890 --> 00:19:44,100
um so I send this to Jacques and uh I

471
00:19:48,169 --> 00:19:45,900
tell him not to make he's a very funny

472
00:19:49,730 --> 00:19:48,179
guy by the way and I always say don't

473
00:19:52,370 --> 00:19:49,740
make a joke about the title because the

474
00:19:53,810 --> 00:19:52,380
title is pretty funny but he who says

475
00:19:55,430 --> 00:19:53,820
okay I won't make a joke I just want to

476
00:19:57,710 --> 00:19:55,440
read it and I said okay so I gave it to

477
00:19:59,510 --> 00:19:57,720
him and we both agreed that it was

478
00:20:01,490 --> 00:19:59,520
definitely different than how it gets

479
00:20:03,289 --> 00:20:01,500
represented in Catholic popular culture

480
00:20:05,630 --> 00:20:03,299
and I was surprised actually that he

481
00:20:08,870 --> 00:20:05,640
used it at Rice but happy that he did

482
00:20:10,789 --> 00:20:08,880
and um so that you know so there you go

483
00:20:12,649 --> 00:20:10,799
you know that's the type of stuff that

484
00:20:14,930 --> 00:20:12,659
we do in religious studies when we look

485
00:20:17,750 --> 00:20:14,940
at these kinds of things we actually try

486
00:20:20,510 --> 00:20:17,760
to get as close to your to the original

487
00:20:23,330 --> 00:20:20,520
document as possible not to say that

488
00:20:26,390 --> 00:20:23,340
that's free from interpretation it's not

489
00:20:28,250 --> 00:20:26,400
but what you do get is you get data that

490
00:20:31,970 --> 00:20:28,260
you don't get from just looking at the

491
00:20:33,649 --> 00:20:31,980
pictures when you go to the sorbom or

492
00:20:35,870 --> 00:20:33,659
the Vatican right and you look at these

493
00:20:37,970 --> 00:20:35,880
pictures you actually get data like the

494
00:20:39,770 --> 00:20:37,980
sparkly stuff that comes in through the

495
00:20:41,690 --> 00:20:39,780
atmosphere the telepathic communication

496
00:20:43,430 --> 00:20:41,700
they don't call it telepathy but it said

497
00:20:46,490 --> 00:20:43,440
that there's non-verbal communication

498
00:20:47,990 --> 00:20:46,500
that's happening between this being and

499
00:20:49,850 --> 00:20:48,000
Francis

500
00:20:51,770 --> 00:20:49,860
interesting I just found that really

501
00:20:53,690 --> 00:20:51,780
resonated that it just had so many

502
00:20:57,110 --> 00:20:53,700
connections you know to be interpreted

503
00:20:58,610 --> 00:20:57,120
to similar incidents I mean to tell you

504
00:20:59,570 --> 00:20:58,620
the truth it somewhat terrified me

505
00:21:02,350 --> 00:20:59,580
because

506
00:21:05,870 --> 00:21:02,360
um when I was with Gary in New Mexico

507
00:21:07,490 --> 00:21:05,880
and Tyler Gary showed us a lot of the

508
00:21:09,590 --> 00:21:07,500
research and pictures and things like

509
00:21:12,529 --> 00:21:09,600
that and that was probably one of the

510
00:21:15,470 --> 00:21:12,539
most disturbing things that has happened

511
00:21:19,430 --> 00:21:15,480
to me in my lifetime because I saw

512
00:21:21,169 --> 00:21:19,440
evidence of this type of injury

513
00:21:23,750 --> 00:21:21,179
basically because you know Francis was

514
00:21:27,169 --> 00:21:23,760
injured let's have no you know let's be

515
00:21:28,610 --> 00:21:27,179
clear he was injured by this and these

516
00:21:31,070 --> 00:21:28,620
people were also injured but they were

517
00:21:33,830 --> 00:21:31,080
in real time now do I say that whatever

518
00:21:35,870 --> 00:21:33,840
injured Francis injured these people I'm

519
00:21:38,870 --> 00:21:35,880
not making that connection and saying

520
00:21:41,570 --> 00:21:38,880
that what I am saying is that the

521
00:21:44,149 --> 00:21:41,580
circumstances appear to be quite similar

522
00:21:46,130 --> 00:21:44,159
yeah I agree absolutely there are cases

523
00:21:47,570 --> 00:21:46,140
where things have been more instant

524
00:21:49,430 --> 00:21:47,580
effects and then others that like you

525
00:21:51,710 --> 00:21:49,440
said that I've been a year two years so

526
00:21:53,149 --> 00:21:51,720
that makes sense

527
00:21:54,830 --> 00:21:53,159
um I just wanted to move to a kind of a

528
00:21:57,350 --> 00:21:54,840
more recent-ish case and this was

529
00:21:59,630 --> 00:21:57,360
something that happened in 1933 in Italy

530
00:22:03,590 --> 00:21:59,640
it was reported that uh there was a

531
00:22:05,990 --> 00:22:03,600
crash of a UFO in 1933 Italy and that

532
00:22:08,810 --> 00:22:06,000
Mussolini actually confided in Pope Pius

533
00:22:10,730 --> 00:22:08,820
XII about the craft which found its way

534
00:22:12,230 --> 00:22:10,740
to the US after World War II is that

535
00:22:15,649 --> 00:22:12,240
something you've come across that case

536
00:22:18,590 --> 00:22:15,659
in your research I have heard about that

537
00:22:20,450 --> 00:22:18,600
case but I have not I don't have any so

538
00:22:22,430 --> 00:22:20,460
what I try to do

539
00:22:25,070 --> 00:22:22,440
um as best I possibly can and I think I

540
00:22:27,649 --> 00:22:25,080
do it is I can only comment on those

541
00:22:30,289 --> 00:22:27,659
those cases where I've actually seen the

542
00:22:31,850 --> 00:22:30,299
primary source material sure

543
00:22:33,830 --> 00:22:31,860
um so even though I've heard people that

544
00:22:34,970 --> 00:22:33,840
I believe have been credible talk about

545
00:22:37,789 --> 00:22:34,980
this

546
00:22:40,730 --> 00:22:37,799
um I can't talk about it myself in with

547
00:22:43,190 --> 00:22:40,740
any kind of legitimacy because I need to

548
00:22:45,770 --> 00:22:43,200
actually either read it myself see it

549
00:22:47,330 --> 00:22:45,780
translate it you know that I need to do

550
00:22:49,789 --> 00:22:47,340
my research and I haven't been able to

551
00:22:52,250 --> 00:22:49,799
with that but believe me if I do I'll

552
00:22:54,470 --> 00:22:52,260
let you know no I appreciate that I'm on

553
00:22:56,510 --> 00:22:54,480
the lookout for that yeah yeah but the

554
00:22:58,250 --> 00:22:56,520
people you did speak to about it did

555
00:23:00,110 --> 00:22:58,260
they seem like there was legitimacy

556
00:23:02,270 --> 00:23:00,120
behind that case when they would

557
00:23:03,890 --> 00:23:02,280
mentioned it to you yeah I do I do know

558
00:23:06,710 --> 00:23:03,900
a lot of people who definitely believe

559
00:23:09,230 --> 00:23:06,720
that and they're not

560
00:23:10,970 --> 00:23:09,240
they're they're credible in my book

561
00:23:11,630 --> 00:23:10,980
absolutely

562
00:23:13,789 --> 00:23:11,640
um

563
00:23:16,070 --> 00:23:13,799
but I can't I don't know

564
00:23:18,890 --> 00:23:16,080
so I can't personally say yes or no to

565
00:23:20,630 --> 00:23:18,900
that no understandable now you mentioned

566
00:23:23,510 --> 00:23:20,640
there about your trip to New Mexico with

567
00:23:25,490 --> 00:23:23,520
Tyler and James or Gary should I say so

568
00:23:26,930 --> 00:23:25,500
when it comes to materials and Crush

569
00:23:27,950 --> 00:23:26,940
retrievals

570
00:23:29,390 --> 00:23:27,960
um

571
00:23:31,730 --> 00:23:29,400
it's talked about a lot at the moment

572
00:23:34,130 --> 00:23:31,740
with these Legacy programs do you have

573
00:23:36,169 --> 00:23:34,140
you done much research into that or had

574
00:23:38,570 --> 00:23:36,179
many conversations do you think that

575
00:23:41,210 --> 00:23:38,580
there have been Legacy programs looking

576
00:23:43,070 --> 00:23:41,220
at crush retrievals and materials

577
00:23:44,390 --> 00:23:43,080
sure so this is one of the questions

578
00:23:45,950 --> 00:23:44,400
that

579
00:23:47,330 --> 00:23:45,960
um Folks at my University were

580
00:23:49,789 --> 00:23:47,340
interested in you know they were like

581
00:23:53,330 --> 00:23:49,799
what's you know so and I will be very

582
00:23:55,850 --> 00:23:53,340
clear when I started to This research

583
00:23:59,450 --> 00:23:55,860
you have to understand I was not a

584
00:24:02,210 --> 00:23:59,460
Believer I did not believe in this so I

585
00:24:04,490 --> 00:24:02,220
used the tools that I've learned from my

586
00:24:06,590 --> 00:24:04,500
field and that's religious studies which

587
00:24:09,049 --> 00:24:06,600
means that when we talk to people who

588
00:24:11,149 --> 00:24:09,059
say I've had Marian apparitions

589
00:24:13,190 --> 00:24:11,159
apparitions of the Virgin Mary or you

590
00:24:15,169 --> 00:24:13,200
know they've they've had they've seen

591
00:24:18,470 --> 00:24:15,179
Angels or things like that we don't

592
00:24:19,850 --> 00:24:18,480
actually say that they're true or not we

593
00:24:22,250 --> 00:24:19,860
don't know whether these things are

594
00:24:24,470 --> 00:24:22,260
objectively true what we do is we study

595
00:24:26,390 --> 00:24:24,480
the effects and we study the you know

596
00:24:28,130 --> 00:24:26,400
how do these people believe this and

597
00:24:30,830 --> 00:24:28,140
what are the effects of this belief we

598
00:24:32,690 --> 00:24:30,840
that's how we study this we don't you

599
00:24:34,549 --> 00:24:32,700
know so it was very easy for me to

600
00:24:37,250 --> 00:24:34,559
actually say okay I'm now going to study

601
00:24:39,230 --> 00:24:37,260
UFOs because I actually don't believe in

602
00:24:40,930 --> 00:24:39,240
them but I want to know why these two

603
00:24:44,090 --> 00:24:40,940
incredibly

604
00:24:46,730 --> 00:24:44,100
professional successful scientists do

605
00:24:48,950 --> 00:24:46,740
right I want to know that and that's why

606
00:24:51,950 --> 00:24:48,960
I went to New Mexico so I went to New

607
00:24:54,230 --> 00:24:51,960
Mexico and I was asked to go by Tyler

608
00:24:56,390 --> 00:24:54,240
Tyler said I get the feeling that you

609
00:24:58,730 --> 00:24:56,400
actually don't believe in this phenomena

610
00:25:01,310 --> 00:24:58,740
and I want a chance to show you that is

611
00:25:02,630 --> 00:25:01,320
true and I said okay sure you know that

612
00:25:05,450 --> 00:25:02,640
sounds pretty interesting but I want

613
00:25:08,029 --> 00:25:05,460
somebody to go with me and so I knew you

614
00:25:10,850 --> 00:25:08,039
know Gary would be perfect to go and

615
00:25:14,350 --> 00:25:10,860
Gary wanted to go and he's a Believer

616
00:25:19,070 --> 00:25:14,360
and so we went and

617
00:25:21,590 --> 00:25:19,080
what I Came Upon you know like I think

618
00:25:23,090 --> 00:25:21,600
you know I mean people were like if you

619
00:25:24,950 --> 00:25:23,100
knew that this was happening why didn't

620
00:25:27,529 --> 00:25:24,960
you say something well to tell you the

621
00:25:29,930 --> 00:25:27,539
truth I didn't believe it I didn't

622
00:25:31,789 --> 00:25:29,940
believe it at all even at the end of

623
00:25:33,649 --> 00:25:31,799
chapter one if you go back and you look

624
00:25:36,409 --> 00:25:33,659
to American Cosmic you'll see that I

625
00:25:38,330 --> 00:25:36,419
outright say these guys believed in this

626
00:25:40,850 --> 00:25:38,340
and they had these you know this

627
00:25:43,070 --> 00:25:40,860
material and this debris and it actually

628
00:25:45,710 --> 00:25:43,080
stopped Gary from getting through the

629
00:25:47,990 --> 00:25:45,720
airport and you know they searched

630
00:25:50,570 --> 00:25:48,000
everything just exactly how Tyler said

631
00:25:52,610 --> 00:25:50,580
it was going to happen it happened and

632
00:25:54,529 --> 00:25:52,620
we were sweating Tyler didn't sweat at

633
00:25:56,330 --> 00:25:54,539
all but we were sweating you know we

634
00:25:58,130 --> 00:25:56,340
were like oh my gosh is it gonna be okay

635
00:26:02,090 --> 00:25:58,140
and

636
00:26:05,510 --> 00:26:02,100
um I still didn't believe it okay so but

637
00:26:07,070 --> 00:26:05,520
now with hindsight and with the what the

638
00:26:10,250 --> 00:26:07,080
United States government has come to say

639
00:26:12,049 --> 00:26:10,260
in June 2021 and all the people that

640
00:26:13,850 --> 00:26:12,059
I've met since then

641
00:26:15,950 --> 00:26:13,860
um absolutely there were these programs

642
00:26:17,930 --> 00:26:15,960
that were studying this and I just

643
00:26:21,649 --> 00:26:17,940
happened upon one

644
00:26:25,130 --> 00:26:21,659
um you know for whatever strange reason

645
00:26:27,590 --> 00:26:25,140
um and you know I at the time I didn't

646
00:26:29,810 --> 00:26:27,600
believe it I believe it now

647
00:26:31,430 --> 00:26:29,820
um what do I think they're doing there

648
00:26:33,529 --> 00:26:31,440
um do I think that there's kind of like

649
00:26:34,570 --> 00:26:33,539
this cover-up for weapons or do I think

650
00:26:37,490 --> 00:26:34,580
that you know they're actually

651
00:26:40,490 --> 00:26:37,500
retrieving things

652
00:26:42,350 --> 00:26:40,500
um I mean I have to say that I've met

653
00:26:44,630 --> 00:26:42,360
now a lot of people that are part of

654
00:26:46,610 --> 00:26:44,640
these programs and

655
00:26:48,049 --> 00:26:46,620
to me this is what they've been doing

656
00:26:49,430 --> 00:26:48,059
their whole lives some of them have been

657
00:26:52,850 --> 00:26:49,440
in these programs since they were 18

658
00:26:54,169 --> 00:26:52,860
years old and now in their 60s so why

659
00:26:57,110 --> 00:26:54,179
would they be doing this their whole

660
00:26:59,330 --> 00:26:57,120
lives if something wasn't happening

661
00:27:01,669 --> 00:26:59,340
that's what I think that's interesting

662
00:27:03,230 --> 00:27:01,679
definitely before the next question I

663
00:27:04,909 --> 00:27:03,240
just want to say to everyone in the chat

664
00:27:07,070 --> 00:27:04,919
I am noting down some of your questions

665
00:27:09,230 --> 00:27:07,080
Mr Calhoun thank you for your kind

666
00:27:11,750 --> 00:27:09,240
donation I will get to your questions uh

667
00:27:13,370 --> 00:27:11,760
towards the end of the interview

668
00:27:14,630 --> 00:27:13,380
um you mentioned they're the apparitions

669
00:27:16,310 --> 00:27:14,640
now earlier this year I actually

670
00:27:18,169 --> 00:27:16,320
traveled to rural Colombia to

671
00:27:19,909 --> 00:27:18,179
investigate a light phenomenon out there

672
00:27:21,830 --> 00:27:19,919
and the one thing that struck me in the

673
00:27:23,149 --> 00:27:21,840
local Villages and towns was the

674
00:27:24,950 --> 00:27:23,159
overwhelming amount of people that

675
00:27:28,070 --> 00:27:24,960
talked about the Marion apparitions

676
00:27:29,389 --> 00:27:28,080
locally it was absolutely mind-blowing

677
00:27:32,029 --> 00:27:29,399
so

678
00:27:33,169 --> 00:27:32,039
you know it seems like to me before that

679
00:27:34,789 --> 00:27:33,179
I would have said yeah there was you

680
00:27:37,310 --> 00:27:34,799
know the Fatima cases and really old

681
00:27:38,930 --> 00:27:37,320
historic but then I started looking at

682
00:27:40,730 --> 00:27:38,940
it a little bit more and obviously came

683
00:27:42,710 --> 00:27:40,740
across the case of Christopher Bledsoe

684
00:27:45,049 --> 00:27:42,720
and the lady and what really struck me

685
00:27:48,049 --> 00:27:45,059
was the the interest by the government

686
00:27:49,310 --> 00:27:48,059
and the CIA Etc and I know you're

687
00:27:51,110 --> 00:27:49,320
familiar with the case and I just

688
00:27:52,850 --> 00:27:51,120
wondered why you think it was such a

689
00:27:55,210 --> 00:27:52,860
that case in particular was so

690
00:27:57,470 --> 00:27:55,220
interesting to these agencies

691
00:27:58,909 --> 00:27:57,480
okay so

692
00:28:01,370 --> 00:27:58,919
um

693
00:28:03,889 --> 00:28:01,380
yeah so that case has a lot of

694
00:28:06,889 --> 00:28:03,899
interesting

695
00:28:09,730 --> 00:28:06,899
um aspects to it not the least of which

696
00:28:13,130 --> 00:28:09,740
is that whatever

697
00:28:14,389 --> 00:28:13,140
Chris did see in the beginning

698
00:28:17,450 --> 00:28:14,399
um was something that had been

699
00:28:18,950 --> 00:28:17,460
registered before and so and I actually

700
00:28:22,250 --> 00:28:18,960
witnessed this

701
00:28:24,889 --> 00:28:22,260
um this was when I was a disbeliever and

702
00:28:29,149 --> 00:28:24,899
I it was very early on in fact I think

703
00:28:31,789 --> 00:28:29,159
it was in 2012. there was a mufon mutual

704
00:28:34,330 --> 00:28:31,799
UFO Network meeting in Asheville that I

705
00:28:37,549 --> 00:28:34,340
went to and I went there with my husband

706
00:28:38,930 --> 00:28:37,559
and I hadn't yet met Chris are you

707
00:28:40,610 --> 00:28:38,940
talking about Chris Bledsoe and the lady

708
00:28:44,630 --> 00:28:40,620
is that okay yeah that's what I thought

709
00:28:46,549 --> 00:28:44,640
okay so um I hadn't actually met Chris

710
00:28:49,070 --> 00:28:46,559
but I'd heard a lot about him so I

711
00:28:51,769 --> 00:28:49,080
wanted to go and try and be Incognito

712
00:28:54,769 --> 00:28:51,779
right in in the back of the room and

713
00:28:56,269 --> 00:28:54,779
what I witnessed was this was that Chris

714
00:28:58,010 --> 00:28:56,279
this was one of the first times that

715
00:29:01,450 --> 00:28:58,020
Chris finally decided he was going to

716
00:29:07,010 --> 00:29:01,460
talk and he was there with his son Ryan

717
00:29:11,450 --> 00:29:07,020
and he was really reticent to talk and

718
00:29:14,870 --> 00:29:11,460
he seemed clearly sincere to me and I I

719
00:29:18,470 --> 00:29:14,880
was struck by that about him and I was

720
00:29:20,990 --> 00:29:18,480
also struck by the fact that this made a

721
00:29:23,750 --> 00:29:21,000
huge impact on his life and the life of

722
00:29:28,730 --> 00:29:23,760
his family and that it wasn't an easy

723
00:29:32,930 --> 00:29:28,740
impact at all and that was obvious

724
00:29:36,529 --> 00:29:32,940
and then during the during his talk what

725
00:29:38,930 --> 00:29:36,539
I something very strange happened

726
00:29:41,990 --> 00:29:38,940
um one of the first investigators that

727
00:29:44,690 --> 00:29:42,000
had been on the case stood up and

728
00:29:47,269 --> 00:29:44,700
basically said he said look I'm so and

729
00:29:49,490 --> 00:29:47,279
so he gave his name and he said I was

730
00:29:51,590 --> 00:29:49,500
the first investigator to be on the case

731
00:29:54,110 --> 00:29:51,600
and I took it in and you know put it

732
00:29:55,970 --> 00:29:54,120
into the database and immediately I was

733
00:29:58,549 --> 00:29:55,980
kicked off the case and the data was

734
00:30:00,350 --> 00:29:58,559
taken I'm not kidding you and Chris

735
00:30:02,269 --> 00:30:00,360
didn't know that this guy would be there

736
00:30:03,769 --> 00:30:02,279
I thought it was really weird so I wrote

737
00:30:05,690 --> 00:30:03,779
it down you know I'm a professor so I'm

738
00:30:08,510 --> 00:30:05,700
going to write down all the data I took

739
00:30:10,490 --> 00:30:08,520
down his name and everything and he said

740
00:30:12,409 --> 00:30:10,500
I don't have to be here I no longer work

741
00:30:16,190 --> 00:30:12,419
for move on but I just wanted that to be

742
00:30:19,190 --> 00:30:16,200
known and I thought that was so weird

743
00:30:20,690 --> 00:30:19,200
that of course you know I I thought okay

744
00:30:22,970 --> 00:30:20,700
so then

745
00:30:24,649 --> 00:30:22,980
um Chris had told me uh once I

746
00:30:27,169 --> 00:30:24,659
introduced myself to Chris this was

747
00:30:30,049 --> 00:30:27,179
actually later during I didn't introduce

748
00:30:33,409 --> 00:30:30,059
myself to him at that conference but I

749
00:30:35,450 --> 00:30:33,419
did later and we talked we met here in

750
00:30:37,730 --> 00:30:35,460
where I work actually

751
00:30:41,269 --> 00:30:37,740
um at a at a meeting here on

752
00:30:43,730 --> 00:30:41,279
Wrightsville Beach in Wilmington and

753
00:30:46,730 --> 00:30:43,740
again what struck me about him was that

754
00:30:48,950 --> 00:30:46,740
you know in a lot of these Nar in a lot

755
00:30:50,750 --> 00:30:48,960
of these cases people get information

756
00:30:52,970 --> 00:30:50,760
and this happens by the way with Marian

757
00:30:55,610 --> 00:30:52,980
apparitions as well is that the people

758
00:30:57,529 --> 00:30:55,620
that have these experiences feel that

759
00:30:59,810 --> 00:30:57,539
the end of the world is happening and

760
00:31:02,450 --> 00:30:59,820
that they you know they they have to

761
00:31:04,610 --> 00:31:02,460
prepare right now and Chris was really

762
00:31:07,730 --> 00:31:04,620
concerned so he had like mowed his whole

763
00:31:09,470 --> 00:31:07,740
his whole yard into a giant garden and

764
00:31:10,970 --> 00:31:09,480
his wife was really upset about it but

765
00:31:12,230 --> 00:31:10,980
he was getting these giant vegetables

766
00:31:14,210 --> 00:31:12,240
and he said I'm going to feed my whole

767
00:31:17,149 --> 00:31:14,220
neighborhood when this happens so he was

768
00:31:19,730 --> 00:31:17,159
literally doing what he felt he needed

769
00:31:21,710 --> 00:31:19,740
to do he even gave me things like he

770
00:31:23,810 --> 00:31:21,720
gave me eggs from his chickens and you

771
00:31:25,490 --> 00:31:23,820
know all kinds of vegetables and you

772
00:31:28,130 --> 00:31:25,500
know and I had told him I said Chris

773
00:31:31,070 --> 00:31:28,140
people have had these experiences for at

774
00:31:33,529 --> 00:31:31,080
least 2 000 years that I know of and

775
00:31:34,970 --> 00:31:33,539
more and they've always felt that the

776
00:31:37,190 --> 00:31:34,980
end of the world was was going to happen

777
00:31:39,289 --> 00:31:37,200
they got these like you know end of the

778
00:31:41,029 --> 00:31:39,299
world kind of scenarios and that they

779
00:31:44,450 --> 00:31:41,039
had to do these things and they had to

780
00:31:46,850 --> 00:31:44,460
be super holy and good and prey and they

781
00:31:48,889 --> 00:31:46,860
have to make Gardens and things and so

782
00:31:50,990 --> 00:31:48,899
he listened to me and he said and

783
00:31:52,549 --> 00:31:51,000
finally he came around he said I don't

784
00:31:54,830 --> 00:31:52,559
know when it's going to happen he said

785
00:31:56,990 --> 00:31:54,840
it will happen but it'll happen in God's

786
00:31:58,850 --> 00:31:57,000
time so he kind of laid off of the

787
00:32:00,470 --> 00:31:58,860
gardening for the whole world type of

788
00:32:02,570 --> 00:32:00,480
thing you know

789
00:32:04,730 --> 00:32:02,580
um but the lady so that was something

790
00:32:05,930 --> 00:32:04,740
that you know the reason I went into

791
00:32:07,310 --> 00:32:05,940
graduate schools because I was

792
00:32:10,269 --> 00:32:07,320
interested in apparitions of the Virgin

793
00:32:13,610 --> 00:32:10,279
Mary and why people believed in those

794
00:32:15,610 --> 00:32:13,620
and actually I couldn't believe the

795
00:32:18,769 --> 00:32:15,620
connection that I found between

796
00:32:21,350 --> 00:32:18,779
the the phenomena basically the UFO

797
00:32:23,210 --> 00:32:21,360
phenomena and then these apparitions

798
00:32:26,570 --> 00:32:23,220
that people see a lot of times they see

799
00:32:28,310 --> 00:32:26,580
lights in the sky discs in the sky you

800
00:32:30,289 --> 00:32:28,320
know flying and things like that and if

801
00:32:32,149 --> 00:32:30,299
you do start to look at some of the

802
00:32:34,190 --> 00:32:32,159
major apparitions even the ones that are

803
00:32:36,710 --> 00:32:34,200
approved by the Catholic Church you

804
00:32:39,409 --> 00:32:36,720
scratch the surface of those and you see

805
00:32:42,529 --> 00:32:39,419
that a lot of the primary sources also

806
00:32:44,990 --> 00:32:42,539
show what people so a lot of times the

807
00:32:47,630 --> 00:32:45,000
people say well she's a lady that comes

808
00:32:49,490 --> 00:32:47,640
down on a flying disc you know and this

809
00:32:51,710 --> 00:32:49,500
happens and you know there's lights all

810
00:32:54,649 --> 00:32:51,720
around her and she always has the same

811
00:32:58,610 --> 00:32:54,659
message uh it seems that you know just

812
00:33:01,310 --> 00:32:58,620
uh pray do good by people fast once a

813
00:33:04,850 --> 00:33:01,320
week and things like that and I uh so

814
00:33:07,070 --> 00:33:04,860
why is the government interested in this

815
00:33:08,389 --> 00:33:07,080
um so I have different

816
00:33:11,570 --> 00:33:08,399
um

817
00:33:13,730 --> 00:33:11,580
I have different what would you call it

818
00:33:16,009 --> 00:33:13,740
um I've heard different things from

819
00:33:18,590 --> 00:33:16,019
people who are in the government

820
00:33:20,690 --> 00:33:18,600
um I think that well one of the

821
00:33:23,990 --> 00:33:20,700
questions that Chris was asked early on

822
00:33:25,250 --> 00:33:24,000
by somebody who was basically Tyler he

823
00:33:27,409 --> 00:33:25,260
wanted to know

824
00:33:30,350 --> 00:33:27,419
if the lady was responsible for

825
00:33:32,330 --> 00:33:30,360
deactivating nuclear weapons and you

826
00:33:34,850 --> 00:33:32,340
know at the weapons site the and he

827
00:33:37,070 --> 00:33:34,860
wanted to know what the deal was with

828
00:33:39,529 --> 00:33:37,080
that so he that's his question for Chris

829
00:33:42,049 --> 00:33:39,539
and I and I kept notes I was like okay

830
00:33:44,750 --> 00:33:42,059
that's a pretty weird question you know

831
00:33:47,029 --> 00:33:44,760
because that assumes that he believes in

832
00:33:48,769 --> 00:33:47,039
the lady okay

833
00:33:52,190 --> 00:33:48,779
um there's also other people who have

834
00:33:56,509 --> 00:33:52,200
said that this presence this uh feminine

835
00:33:58,669 --> 00:33:56,519
presence is reported a lot with respect

836
00:33:59,269 --> 00:33:58,679
to

837
00:34:01,430 --> 00:33:59,279
um

838
00:34:04,490 --> 00:34:01,440
you know these kinds of

839
00:34:07,549 --> 00:34:06,289
a lot of these sightings as well seem to

840
00:34:10,310 --> 00:34:07,559
come up with you mentioning kind of

841
00:34:12,169 --> 00:34:10,320
predictions or you know the things that

842
00:34:13,849 --> 00:34:12,179
are going to happen in the future and

843
00:34:15,409 --> 00:34:13,859
I mean I struggle with that and how do

844
00:34:21,109 --> 00:34:15,419
we skeptically look at those without

845
00:34:26,690 --> 00:34:23,510
I don't I

846
00:34:29,210 --> 00:34:26,700
I brush data aside so this is one thing

847
00:34:30,530 --> 00:34:29,220
that Gary Nolan and I feel pretty this

848
00:34:32,629 --> 00:34:30,540
well actually the same about because

849
00:34:35,690 --> 00:34:32,639
I've had conversation with him is that

850
00:34:38,450 --> 00:34:35,700
in our field in fact I'm writing an

851
00:34:40,310 --> 00:34:38,460
article right now that's overdue

852
00:34:43,730 --> 00:34:40,320
um but it's basically about how to do

853
00:34:46,069 --> 00:34:43,740
this kind of work academically and in

854
00:34:49,430 --> 00:34:46,079
his field and in my field what happens

855
00:34:51,649 --> 00:34:49,440
is that if you have data uh and it it

856
00:34:53,569 --> 00:34:51,659
looks like you and literally I want to

857
00:34:55,849 --> 00:34:53,579
just point out that you know the stigma

858
00:34:59,150 --> 00:34:55,859
the Stigmata it comes from the word

859
00:35:00,950 --> 00:34:59,160
stigma and stigmatized knowledge is

860
00:35:03,410 --> 00:35:00,960
something that's very important as an

861
00:35:06,230 --> 00:35:03,420
issue here because within my field

862
00:35:09,170 --> 00:35:06,240
people once you know didn't study this

863
00:35:11,990 --> 00:35:09,180
at all I wasn't I was I didn't study

864
00:35:13,370 --> 00:35:12,000
this until I became a full Professor

865
00:35:15,589 --> 00:35:13,380
um which is that you can't get any

866
00:35:17,990 --> 00:35:15,599
higher than a full Professor because you

867
00:35:20,510 --> 00:35:18,000
know I thought if I did it before that

868
00:35:23,450 --> 00:35:20,520
it just wouldn't be a good idea and I

869
00:35:26,089 --> 00:35:23,460
don't recommend it still to people in

870
00:35:28,370 --> 00:35:26,099
early in their career but but Gary said

871
00:35:30,109 --> 00:35:28,380
this too he said you know a lot of my

872
00:35:31,849 --> 00:35:30,119
graduate students will come to me and

873
00:35:34,010 --> 00:35:31,859
they'll say okay here's my you know

874
00:35:35,569 --> 00:35:34,020
here's what I'm doing and I'll say what

875
00:35:36,770 --> 00:35:35,579
about this data over here and they'll

876
00:35:38,690 --> 00:35:36,780
say yeah I don't know what to do with

877
00:35:40,670 --> 00:35:38,700
that and he goes well you have to

878
00:35:42,230 --> 00:35:40,680
actually include it because it'll

879
00:35:44,630 --> 00:35:42,240
probably help you understand what the

880
00:35:47,450 --> 00:35:44,640
problem is so a lot of the data let's

881
00:35:51,290 --> 00:35:47,460
take the relationship between the

882
00:35:52,550 --> 00:35:51,300
government and UFO disclosure or UFO

883
00:35:55,490 --> 00:35:52,560
um you know what people believe about

884
00:35:57,230 --> 00:35:55,500
UFOs there's a distinct it just so

885
00:36:01,010 --> 00:35:57,240
happens that people who are ufologists

886
00:36:03,170 --> 00:36:01,020
and people who look into UFO uh you know

887
00:36:05,990 --> 00:36:03,180
research and things like that they've

888
00:36:07,849 --> 00:36:06,000
always known that there's been Project

889
00:36:09,650 --> 00:36:07,859
Blue Book and there's been debunking of

890
00:36:10,790 --> 00:36:09,660
UFO reports and things like that they've

891
00:36:13,250 --> 00:36:10,800
always known that that's like common

892
00:36:15,290 --> 00:36:13,260
knowledge but if you talk to academics

893
00:36:17,750 --> 00:36:15,300
it's like that doesn't even exist to

894
00:36:20,270 --> 00:36:17,760
them so they're completely ignoring data

895
00:36:21,530 --> 00:36:20,280
I mean completely and that's not

896
00:36:23,930 --> 00:36:21,540
academic

897
00:36:26,690 --> 00:36:23,940
that's completely against what we've

898
00:36:28,970 --> 00:36:26,700
been trained to do so why is that and

899
00:36:31,609 --> 00:36:28,980
that's I'm asking that question in this

900
00:36:33,410 --> 00:36:31,619
article I'm saying you know why is it

901
00:36:34,910 --> 00:36:33,420
that researchers who are civilian

902
00:36:37,310 --> 00:36:34,920
researchers and not affiliated with

903
00:36:39,829 --> 00:36:37,320
universities know this

904
00:36:41,810 --> 00:36:39,839
but we ignore it that's because we lose

905
00:36:45,349 --> 00:36:41,820
our jobs I think a lot of us would lose

906
00:36:47,510 --> 00:36:45,359
our jobs and to get attacked for like so

907
00:36:50,390 --> 00:36:47,520
no I think that we can't brush aside

908
00:36:52,910 --> 00:36:50,400
this type of data we have to actually it

909
00:36:55,010 --> 00:36:52,920
has to inform how we move forward

910
00:36:56,750 --> 00:36:55,020
excellent I really I really appreciate

911
00:36:58,490 --> 00:36:56,760
that answer because there are times

912
00:37:00,950 --> 00:36:58,500
where I'm looking at something and I

913
00:37:03,589 --> 00:37:00,960
find a data point that doesn't fit or it

914
00:37:05,569 --> 00:37:03,599
sounds too outrageous and I admit I

915
00:37:08,750 --> 00:37:05,579
brush it aside sometimes and it's kind

916
00:37:10,430 --> 00:37:08,760
of I I feel bad for ignoring them but if

917
00:37:12,650 --> 00:37:10,440
I can't make them fit I'm just becoming

918
00:37:15,290 --> 00:37:12,660
a tangle for so long so yeah that makes

919
00:37:17,150 --> 00:37:15,300
sense and so thank you uh let's get to a

920
00:37:19,730 --> 00:37:17,160
few uh questions that we've received

921
00:37:21,109 --> 00:37:19,740
here in the chat uh Jonathan asks is it

922
00:37:22,910 --> 00:37:21,119
true that you have briefed intelligence

923
00:37:26,030 --> 00:37:22,920
people and technologists together with

924
00:37:34,490 --> 00:37:29,349
um okay so I do know

925
00:37:36,470 --> 00:37:34,500
no but let me do a qualification on that

926
00:37:39,470 --> 00:37:36,480
um I do know that intelligence people

927
00:37:41,750 --> 00:37:39,480
were reading Jeff cripple's work because

928
00:37:44,390 --> 00:37:41,760
they told me and they said and they

929
00:37:46,790 --> 00:37:44,400
would say this is good reading for you

930
00:37:49,130 --> 00:37:46,800
know basically just to to catch young

931
00:37:50,150 --> 00:37:49,140
intelligence people up on paranormal and

932
00:37:53,630 --> 00:37:50,160
and

933
00:37:55,849 --> 00:37:53,640
you know which Jeff actually

934
00:37:57,290 --> 00:37:55,859
does talk about in his research so I

935
00:37:59,569 --> 00:37:57,300
know that's true

936
00:38:02,030 --> 00:37:59,579
um when my book came out it was read by

937
00:38:03,589 --> 00:38:02,040
a lot of people uh even before it was

938
00:38:06,470 --> 00:38:03,599
published because those people actually

939
00:38:08,690 --> 00:38:06,480
reached out to me and wanted to have

940
00:38:11,030 --> 00:38:08,700
conversations so but have we had

941
00:38:12,890 --> 00:38:11,040
briefings where no no we don't have

942
00:38:15,470 --> 00:38:12,900
briefings although I would say that

943
00:38:18,349 --> 00:38:15,480
probably in in every like I've I've been

944
00:38:19,970 --> 00:38:18,359
I've taught a few classes on UFOs and

945
00:38:22,970 --> 00:38:19,980
I've had intelligence people in those

946
00:38:24,950 --> 00:38:22,980
classes and come out and say we work for

947
00:38:26,329 --> 00:38:24,960
you know this intelligence organization

948
00:38:28,550 --> 00:38:26,339
and so forth

949
00:38:30,650 --> 00:38:28,560
um they don't say why they're there but

950
00:38:32,569 --> 00:38:30,660
they are there

951
00:38:34,790 --> 00:38:32,579
that's strange just announcing their

952
00:38:36,550 --> 00:38:34,800
presence but for no particular reason it

953
00:38:39,650 --> 00:38:36,560
seems a bit ominous

954
00:38:43,130 --> 00:38:39,660
you know they're pretty nice though

955
00:38:44,690 --> 00:38:43,140
they're not they're not you know they

956
00:38:46,130 --> 00:38:44,700
don't look like the Men in Black with

957
00:38:48,530 --> 00:38:46,140
their Shades or anything like that

958
00:38:50,089 --> 00:38:48,540
they're like usually some of them you

959
00:38:52,370 --> 00:38:50,099
know there's super

960
00:38:53,450 --> 00:38:52,380
affable I guess you could say

961
00:38:58,370 --> 00:38:53,460
yeah

962
00:39:02,210 --> 00:39:00,170
um Mr Khaled again thank you for the

963
00:39:04,069 --> 00:39:02,220
donation yes why does the Catholic

964
00:39:06,349 --> 00:39:04,079
Church have such a pronounced interest

965
00:39:08,270 --> 00:39:06,359
in potential ET life does it just come

966
00:39:09,890 --> 00:39:08,280
from its theological Traditions or has

967
00:39:12,530 --> 00:39:09,900
it compiled over the last two thousand

968
00:39:15,589 --> 00:39:12,540
years its own X-Files

969
00:39:18,530 --> 00:39:15,599
that's great I like that question The

970
00:39:20,329 --> 00:39:18,540
X-Files the uh the Catholic X-Files so

971
00:39:22,130 --> 00:39:20,339
um all right so this is a really good

972
00:39:25,130 --> 00:39:22,140
question so

973
00:39:28,370 --> 00:39:25,140
I think that the Catholic Church doesn't

974
00:39:30,050 --> 00:39:28,380
necessarily have well okay yes they're

975
00:39:32,030 --> 00:39:30,060
very you have to understand that they

976
00:39:34,010 --> 00:39:32,040
have an observatory they have an

977
00:39:37,069 --> 00:39:34,020
observatory that's as old as the United

978
00:39:39,410 --> 00:39:37,079
States okay uh with its own telescope

979
00:39:41,270 --> 00:39:39,420
you know and it's in Castle Gandolfo so

980
00:39:43,849 --> 00:39:41,280
they've been looking out

981
00:39:46,790 --> 00:39:43,859
into space longer than we've been around

982
00:39:50,870 --> 00:39:46,800
in the United States at least right

983
00:39:52,430 --> 00:39:50,880
um so they have an idea that there might

984
00:39:54,530 --> 00:39:52,440
be things out there in Catholic

985
00:39:57,410 --> 00:39:54,540
tradition uh people have talked about

986
00:39:59,630 --> 00:39:57,420
planetary intelligences and perhaps

987
00:40:02,569 --> 00:39:59,640
worlds on other you know people on other

988
00:40:04,430 --> 00:40:02,579
planets um or life on other planets so

989
00:40:06,530 --> 00:40:04,440
the whole idea of extraterrestrial life

990
00:40:10,190 --> 00:40:06,540
is something that Catholics have always

991
00:40:12,829 --> 00:40:10,200
talked about for at least 1 000 years I

992
00:40:16,849 --> 00:40:12,839
also like to bring up non-catholic but

993
00:40:19,190 --> 00:40:16,859
Christian Emmanuel swedenborg who in

994
00:40:21,770 --> 00:40:19,200
1750 wrote a book called life on other

995
00:40:23,569 --> 00:40:21,780
planets and this was a bestseller in

996
00:40:25,309 --> 00:40:23,579
Europe at the time and you could still

997
00:40:27,170 --> 00:40:25,319
get this book it's on Amazon

998
00:40:29,870 --> 00:40:27,180
so people have been talking about

999
00:40:33,410 --> 00:40:29,880
extraterrestrial life when I went to the

1000
00:40:36,650 --> 00:40:33,420
Vatican Observatory there was a whole

1001
00:40:40,250 --> 00:40:36,660
um stack of it looks like probably 2 000

1002
00:40:43,910 --> 00:40:40,260
books about extraterrestrial life

1003
00:40:47,030 --> 00:40:43,920
um so you know from I don't know 800

1004
00:40:48,829 --> 00:40:47,040
years ago to the present and it and I I

1005
00:40:50,210 --> 00:40:48,839
started there by the way in my research

1006
00:40:51,470 --> 00:40:50,220
I was like I think I'm going to start

1007
00:40:54,230 --> 00:40:51,480
here

1008
00:40:56,750 --> 00:40:54,240
um in terms of looking at you know just

1009
00:40:59,150 --> 00:40:56,760
how things were categorized even

1010
00:41:01,970 --> 00:40:59,160
um so I know various different Catholics

1011
00:41:05,030 --> 00:41:01,980
who are in positions of hierarchy within

1012
00:41:07,550 --> 00:41:05,040
the church there's no position at this

1013
00:41:09,470 --> 00:41:07,560
moment about you know official Catholic

1014
00:41:11,990 --> 00:41:09,480
position on extraterrestrial life other

1015
00:41:14,329 --> 00:41:12,000
than that there are invisible things

1016
00:41:17,450 --> 00:41:14,339
that God has created God has created

1017
00:41:19,970 --> 00:41:17,460
things visible and invisible you can go

1018
00:41:22,069 --> 00:41:19,980
to by the way for for Mr Calhoun and

1019
00:41:23,990 --> 00:41:22,079
people who are interested they may have

1020
00:41:28,809 --> 00:41:24,000
already seen this I don't know but uh

1021
00:41:31,309 --> 00:41:28,819
John Paul II talked about this in his

1022
00:41:34,849 --> 00:41:31,319
catechesis which is a teaching it's

1023
00:41:38,030 --> 00:41:34,859
called the teaching on angels and this

1024
00:41:40,250 --> 00:41:38,040
was in the 1980s and he he released it

1025
00:41:41,630 --> 00:41:40,260
to his Bishops so he wasn't talking to

1026
00:41:43,849 --> 00:41:41,640
the general populace he was actually

1027
00:41:46,250 --> 00:41:43,859
talking to his Bishops and he said

1028
00:41:49,490 --> 00:41:46,260
you might not believe that there are

1029
00:41:51,770 --> 00:41:49,500
these things that we call Angels but you

1030
00:41:53,450 --> 00:41:51,780
know because it's it's the

1031
00:41:56,150 --> 00:41:53,460
we just don't believe in that anymore

1032
00:41:58,910 --> 00:41:56,160
but they still exist whether or not you

1033
00:42:00,950 --> 00:41:58,920
believe in them they're real and then he

1034
00:42:03,349 --> 00:42:00,960
goes back to kind of prove how they're

1035
00:42:05,450 --> 00:42:03,359
real and then they he also says this

1036
00:42:07,970 --> 00:42:05,460
which I found fascinating is that they

1037
00:42:11,150 --> 00:42:07,980
intervene in human history

1038
00:42:13,730 --> 00:42:11,160
so human history would not be what it is

1039
00:42:15,650 --> 00:42:13,740
today without the intervention of these

1040
00:42:17,510 --> 00:42:15,660
beings

1041
00:42:19,130 --> 00:42:17,520
um if you go to brother guy console

1042
00:42:22,370 --> 00:42:19,140
mano's work he actually wrote a book

1043
00:42:24,950 --> 00:42:22,380
called with the Pope baptized in ET and

1044
00:42:26,750 --> 00:42:24,960
extraterrestrial and he talks about this

1045
00:42:28,569 --> 00:42:26,760
in the introduction about you know what

1046
00:42:31,550 --> 00:42:28,579
the Catholic Church thinks about

1047
00:42:34,069 --> 00:42:31,560
extraterrestrials and

1048
00:42:36,290 --> 00:42:34,079
um now that's one thing the the

1049
00:42:38,150 --> 00:42:36,300
different opinions that various people

1050
00:42:41,030 --> 00:42:38,160
in the Catholic church have some believe

1051
00:42:43,609 --> 00:42:41,040
some don't believe okay in these higher

1052
00:42:46,190 --> 00:42:43,619
positions of hierarchy

1053
00:42:49,790 --> 00:42:46,200
they also have conferences like every

1054
00:42:51,410 --> 00:42:49,800
year about what would happen you know

1055
00:42:53,210 --> 00:42:51,420
about the status of that of

1056
00:42:55,849 --> 00:42:53,220
extraterrestrial life

1057
00:42:57,890 --> 00:42:55,859
what's interesting is that I find that

1058
00:42:59,030 --> 00:42:57,900
you know there's there's UFO Twitter and

1059
00:43:01,970 --> 00:42:59,040
there's you know all these kind of

1060
00:43:03,230 --> 00:43:01,980
social media platforms about UFOs none

1061
00:43:05,930 --> 00:43:03,240
of them actually talk about that when

1062
00:43:08,390 --> 00:43:05,940
they come around but I think those are

1063
00:43:10,550 --> 00:43:08,400
probably the best places to go because

1064
00:43:12,890 --> 00:43:10,560
you have people who are astrophysicists

1065
00:43:16,010 --> 00:43:12,900
who are at MIT in Harvard and they're

1066
00:43:18,470 --> 00:43:16,020
talking to astrophysicists you know in

1067
00:43:20,030 --> 00:43:18,480
Castle Gandolfo right who are happen to

1068
00:43:22,250 --> 00:43:20,040
be Jesuit monks or something like that

1069
00:43:24,050 --> 00:43:22,260
and they're all talking about you know

1070
00:43:25,970 --> 00:43:24,060
these exoplanets and life on these

1071
00:43:28,069 --> 00:43:25,980
exoplanets and you know what would be

1072
00:43:30,950 --> 00:43:28,079
the repercussions for you know telling

1073
00:43:32,870 --> 00:43:30,960
the world if ET exists and you know that

1074
00:43:35,630 --> 00:43:32,880
kind of thing so so that's been going on

1075
00:43:38,569 --> 00:43:35,640
for at least 10 years or more it's been

1076
00:43:43,910 --> 00:43:38,579
going on for a long time so those happen

1077
00:43:50,089 --> 00:43:43,920
and besides that there is an amount just

1078
00:43:52,430 --> 00:43:50,099
an Untold amount of archival research in

1079
00:43:54,770 --> 00:43:52,440
these archives and libraries that the

1080
00:43:56,450 --> 00:43:54,780
Vatican is just basically trying to

1081
00:43:59,690 --> 00:43:56,460
digitize before it all gets

1082
00:44:03,530 --> 00:43:59,700
disintegrated because it's so old like I

1083
00:44:04,970 --> 00:44:03,540
saw some of the manuscripts and was able

1084
00:44:07,490 --> 00:44:04,980
to go through them but I had to wear

1085
00:44:11,270 --> 00:44:07,500
special gloves and those manuscripts

1086
00:44:13,910 --> 00:44:11,280
still disintegrated okay so these so the

1087
00:44:16,430 --> 00:44:13,920
Vatican is trying really hard right now

1088
00:44:19,069 --> 00:44:16,440
to to digitize all these documents so

1089
00:44:21,410 --> 00:44:19,079
they won't be lost because there is so

1090
00:44:24,470 --> 00:44:21,420
much information in these documents

1091
00:44:26,329 --> 00:44:24,480
about this particular

1092
00:44:28,970 --> 00:44:26,339
um phenomena

1093
00:44:30,410 --> 00:44:28,980
so those are different aspects of you

1094
00:44:31,370 --> 00:44:30,420
know what is the Vatican no kind of

1095
00:44:33,650 --> 00:44:31,380
thing

1096
00:44:35,270 --> 00:44:33,660
so if we did start to see I mean we're

1097
00:44:37,370 --> 00:44:35,280
already starting to see the government's

1098
00:44:39,170 --> 00:44:37,380
talking more openly about the phenomenon

1099
00:44:40,790 --> 00:44:39,180
do you think as that continues we may

1100
00:44:43,210 --> 00:44:40,800
see the Vatican openly talking more

1101
00:44:46,370 --> 00:44:43,220
public about it as well in their own way

1102
00:44:48,950 --> 00:44:46,380
yeah I did talk about this too

1103
00:44:50,930 --> 00:44:48,960
um I'm rehashing what I said earlier

1104
00:44:55,010 --> 00:44:50,940
today to the people at my University so

1105
00:44:57,710 --> 00:44:55,020
absolutely the Vatican is first of all

1106
00:45:01,910 --> 00:44:57,720
you have to understand that it has it's

1107
00:45:04,309 --> 00:45:01,920
you know its documents are not just its

1108
00:45:06,530 --> 00:45:04,319
its history but it's sacred history that

1109
00:45:09,410 --> 00:45:06,540
this is not this is a theocracy this is

1110
00:45:11,569 --> 00:45:09,420
not a democracy so they don't view their

1111
00:45:13,370 --> 00:45:11,579
the contents of their Library like we do

1112
00:45:15,710 --> 00:45:13,380
like the National Archives the people

1113
00:45:18,410 --> 00:45:15,720
should know they don't have that idea

1114
00:45:20,329 --> 00:45:18,420
and we have to be culturally we have to

1115
00:45:21,829 --> 00:45:20,339
understand that difference that cultural

1116
00:45:25,910 --> 00:45:21,839
difference

1117
00:45:28,690 --> 00:45:25,920
um the Vatican I think is is basically

1118
00:45:34,089 --> 00:45:33,109
it it doesn't necessarily have the same

1119
00:45:36,589 --> 00:45:34,099
um

1120
00:45:38,809 --> 00:45:36,599
constraints on it that the United States

1121
00:45:40,309 --> 00:45:38,819
government would have you know because

1122
00:45:43,970 --> 00:45:40,319
we have

1123
00:45:47,870 --> 00:45:43,980
basically an Empire and we also have a

1124
00:45:49,730 --> 00:45:47,880
you know we have a huge military and a

1125
00:45:51,650 --> 00:45:49,740
lot of this is is caught up with

1126
00:45:53,690 --> 00:45:51,660
National Security

1127
00:45:56,150 --> 00:45:53,700
the Vatican doesn't really have weapons

1128
00:45:57,890 --> 00:45:56,160
of mass destruction right and stuff like

1129
00:45:59,329 --> 00:45:57,900
that so you have to understand that

1130
00:46:01,550 --> 00:45:59,339
their position is going to be completely

1131
00:46:03,770 --> 00:46:01,560
different when they talk about it they

1132
00:46:05,270 --> 00:46:03,780
do talk about it like I said just go to

1133
00:46:06,349 --> 00:46:05,280
these conferences they'll talk all about

1134
00:46:10,250 --> 00:46:06,359
it

1135
00:46:12,410 --> 00:46:10,260
the same way that say the conversation

1136
00:46:14,030 --> 00:46:12,420
has happened here that you know the

1137
00:46:15,650 --> 00:46:14,040
United States government has been hiding

1138
00:46:17,030 --> 00:46:15,660
information from the American people and

1139
00:46:18,710 --> 00:46:17,040
finally he's coming out and this kind of

1140
00:46:19,970 --> 00:46:18,720
thing because they're not going to talk

1141
00:46:22,910 --> 00:46:19,980
about it they're they're going to talk

1142
00:46:26,170 --> 00:46:22,920
about it with respect of you know God

1143
00:46:28,849 --> 00:46:26,180
has created all beings and if if

1144
00:46:31,970 --> 00:46:28,859
extraterrestrials exist God has created

1145
00:46:34,730 --> 00:46:31,980
them and angels exist we believe that

1146
00:46:36,890 --> 00:46:34,740
demons exist we believe that are these

1147
00:46:38,569 --> 00:46:36,900
beings different from those these are

1148
00:46:40,730 --> 00:46:38,579
the kinds of questions that they'll be

1149
00:46:45,050 --> 00:46:40,740
asking as well as some of the scientific

1150
00:46:47,329 --> 00:46:45,060
questions about you know is it moral for

1151
00:46:49,730 --> 00:46:47,339
some people if we do find life on other

1152
00:46:52,370 --> 00:46:49,740
planets and we decide to go there is it

1153
00:46:54,650 --> 00:46:52,380
moral and ethical for some of of us to

1154
00:46:56,089 --> 00:46:54,660
go and leave others here so these are

1155
00:46:57,050 --> 00:46:56,099
the questions that the Vatican would be

1156
00:46:59,990 --> 00:46:57,060
asking

1157
00:47:01,849 --> 00:47:00,000
interesting thank you I'm going to move

1158
00:47:03,050 --> 00:47:01,859
on to some questions that I've been

1159
00:47:05,150 --> 00:47:03,060
saying like I said earlier through email

1160
00:47:07,490 --> 00:47:05,160
and stuff so the first one is from Kelly

1161
00:47:09,890 --> 00:47:07,500
from the UFO Rabbit Hole podcast and she

1162
00:47:11,630 --> 00:47:09,900
says hi Kelly you've mentioned before

1163
00:47:14,270 --> 00:47:11,640
that a surprising percentage of the

1164
00:47:16,430 --> 00:47:14,280
invisible College are Catholic so as a

1165
00:47:17,690 --> 00:47:16,440
practicing Catholic yourself what do you

1166
00:47:20,089 --> 00:47:17,700
think the connection might be between

1167
00:47:22,030 --> 00:47:20,099
Catholicism and ufology is it a mere

1168
00:47:24,530 --> 00:47:22,040
coincidence or is there something about

1169
00:47:26,390 --> 00:47:24,540
Catholicism that appeals to people who

1170
00:47:28,190 --> 00:47:26,400
deeply study a phenomena

1171
00:47:30,049 --> 00:47:28,200
or maybe there is something about

1172
00:47:37,549 --> 00:47:30,059
Catholic doctrine that makes people more

1173
00:47:42,410 --> 00:47:40,250
College we're practicing Catholics and

1174
00:47:44,390 --> 00:47:42,420
also some of which are cultural

1175
00:47:47,690 --> 00:47:44,400
Catholics which mean that they were

1176
00:47:49,609 --> 00:47:47,700
brought up Catholic but don't practice

1177
00:47:51,890 --> 00:47:49,619
um and say they're not Catholic now but

1178
00:47:53,990 --> 00:47:51,900
just culturally Catholic uh the people

1179
00:47:56,450 --> 00:47:54,000
that I met who

1180
00:47:58,130 --> 00:47:56,460
identify as being devotionally Catholic

1181
00:47:59,870 --> 00:47:58,140
and when I say devotionally like they

1182
00:48:01,370 --> 00:47:59,880
actually do the devotions like you know

1183
00:48:04,130 --> 00:48:01,380
there are Catholics who just go to

1184
00:48:05,829 --> 00:48:04,140
church and just say hey I'm Catholic but

1185
00:48:09,650 --> 00:48:05,839
then there are people who actually do

1186
00:48:11,510 --> 00:48:09,660
novenas which are nine Day prayers and

1187
00:48:13,730 --> 00:48:11,520
you know engage in maybe going to daily

1188
00:48:15,530 --> 00:48:13,740
mass and things like that and I found

1189
00:48:17,390 --> 00:48:15,540
that some of the invisible College were

1190
00:48:20,809 --> 00:48:17,400
these kinds of Catholics I mean very

1191
00:48:22,010 --> 00:48:20,819
very intensely Catholic now why

1192
00:48:24,109 --> 00:48:22,020
um

1193
00:48:25,910 --> 00:48:24,119
Ah that's a good question I've thought

1194
00:48:28,609 --> 00:48:25,920
about this a lot and I actually don't

1195
00:48:30,589 --> 00:48:28,619
know okay I have my theories um one of

1196
00:48:32,089 --> 00:48:30,599
my theories is that they found out that

1197
00:48:33,349 --> 00:48:32,099
these beings were not necessarily

1198
00:48:35,510 --> 00:48:33,359
extraterrestrial but maybe

1199
00:48:38,690 --> 00:48:35,520
interdimensional and they felt like they

1200
00:48:40,010 --> 00:48:38,700
needed protection that could be one I

1201
00:48:42,530 --> 00:48:40,020
mean when you're getting this is me

1202
00:48:44,750 --> 00:48:42,540
speaking as a non-professor okay and

1203
00:48:46,670 --> 00:48:44,760
you're just asking me you know why does

1204
00:48:48,890 --> 00:48:46,680
this person maintain their devotional

1205
00:48:51,530 --> 00:48:48,900
life when you know there are scientists

1206
00:48:53,990 --> 00:48:51,540
in that and I'm thinking well speaking

1207
00:48:55,670 --> 00:48:54,000
from a religion standpoint they've seen

1208
00:48:58,309 --> 00:48:55,680
something that may have scared them I

1209
00:49:00,109 --> 00:48:58,319
mean I do even I did put in my book in

1210
00:49:00,950 --> 00:49:00,119
American Cosmic after I saw Gary's

1211
00:49:03,109 --> 00:49:00,960
research

1212
00:49:05,150 --> 00:49:03,119
we were just going to the quote-unquote

1213
00:49:07,730 --> 00:49:05,160
donation site afterwards right the site

1214
00:49:09,290 --> 00:49:07,740
I prayed that night because I I didn't

1215
00:49:11,809 --> 00:49:09,300
even know what I was praying about but I

1216
00:49:15,230 --> 00:49:11,819
knew that what I saw was profoundly

1217
00:49:17,630 --> 00:49:15,240
disturbing and I felt like I I needed to

1218
00:49:19,370 --> 00:49:17,640
protect myself in some way so I guess

1219
00:49:21,290 --> 00:49:19,380
that's kind of like a more human answer

1220
00:49:23,270 --> 00:49:21,300
to that question

1221
00:49:27,230 --> 00:49:23,280
um

1222
00:49:28,990 --> 00:49:27,240
let I mean it could also just be that

1223
00:49:32,030 --> 00:49:29,000
um

1224
00:49:35,210 --> 00:49:32,040
they have kind of a similar background

1225
00:49:38,210 --> 00:49:35,220
in the sense that Catholics especially

1226
00:49:40,190 --> 00:49:38,220
Catholics over 50 you could say right

1227
00:49:43,430 --> 00:49:40,200
Catholics over 50 tend to have an

1228
00:49:46,790 --> 00:49:43,440
education that includes like uh Vatican

1229
00:49:48,410 --> 00:49:46,800
II pre-vatican II knowledge of Latin and

1230
00:49:50,329 --> 00:49:48,420
those kinds of things and these

1231
00:49:52,370 --> 00:49:50,339
Catholics have more access to the

1232
00:49:54,230 --> 00:49:52,380
historical record so the historical

1233
00:49:56,870 --> 00:49:54,240
record you know like I know my father

1234
00:49:58,670 --> 00:49:56,880
for instance had greek latin like you

1235
00:50:00,470 --> 00:49:58,680
knew a lot of this stuff so if you told

1236
00:50:02,150 --> 00:50:00,480
him about Francis of Assisi and kind of

1237
00:50:04,010 --> 00:50:02,160
gave him the documents he would look at

1238
00:50:06,950 --> 00:50:04,020
that and that you know it might occur to

1239
00:50:09,470 --> 00:50:06,960
him that UFO ex you know events look

1240
00:50:11,290 --> 00:50:09,480
similar so it could also be that they

1241
00:50:13,970 --> 00:50:11,300
have that background

1242
00:50:16,190 --> 00:50:13,980
interesting and it's good I appreciate

1243
00:50:19,250 --> 00:50:16,200
you answering that as yourself and not

1244
00:50:20,390 --> 00:50:19,260
as the professor and that's I really do

1245
00:50:22,549 --> 00:50:20,400
um I'm going to switch it up a little

1246
00:50:24,530 --> 00:50:22,559
bit here and this is something that I I

1247
00:50:28,010 --> 00:50:24,540
again heard you say recently or bring up

1248
00:50:29,230 --> 00:50:28,020
and I found it fascinating was retracted

1249
00:50:31,370 --> 00:50:29,240
recollection

1250
00:50:33,049 --> 00:50:31,380
if you could explain that for people

1251
00:50:35,569 --> 00:50:33,059
because I think I really found that

1252
00:50:39,290 --> 00:50:35,579
really interesting point you mean

1253
00:50:41,750 --> 00:50:39,300
retracted in terms of self-retraction or

1254
00:50:44,690 --> 00:50:41,760
retraction in terms of what editor

1255
00:50:47,569 --> 00:50:44,700
editors do and like Project Blue Book

1256
00:50:50,569 --> 00:50:47,579
did to us as American citizens you know

1257
00:50:53,690 --> 00:50:50,579
I was thinking more as an ex experience

1258
00:50:54,770 --> 00:50:53,700
when they recall their experiences and

1259
00:50:56,569 --> 00:50:54,780
things like that but if there are

1260
00:50:58,250 --> 00:50:56,579
different angles to it then please by

1261
00:51:00,230 --> 00:50:58,260
all means whichever one you think is the

1262
00:51:01,490 --> 00:51:00,240
most relevant but it was a term I think

1263
00:51:03,130 --> 00:51:01,500
I heard you speaking about it with

1264
00:51:05,750 --> 00:51:03,140
regards to

1265
00:51:08,470 --> 00:51:05,760
selective recollection or only

1266
00:51:10,910 --> 00:51:08,480
remembering certain things and and

1267
00:51:14,329 --> 00:51:10,920
retracting parts of a story whether on

1268
00:51:17,270 --> 00:51:14,339
purpose or over time forgetting things

1269
00:51:19,430 --> 00:51:17,280
maybe I misheard it but no no it's sure

1270
00:51:20,930 --> 00:51:19,440
so there's a different so there's there

1271
00:51:24,410 --> 00:51:20,940
are different levels of this called

1272
00:51:26,990 --> 00:51:24,420
redaction okay and so redaction is

1273
00:51:29,210 --> 00:51:27,000
actually strangely in the United States

1274
00:51:32,990 --> 00:51:29,220
right now is in the news because of this

1275
00:51:35,569 --> 00:51:33,000
FBI uh going into Donald Trump's house

1276
00:51:38,089 --> 00:51:35,579
right and so there was an affidavit and

1277
00:51:40,670 --> 00:51:38,099
you know this this and so you see it and

1278
00:51:42,530 --> 00:51:40,680
it's all completely blotted out and so

1279
00:51:44,390 --> 00:51:42,540
the term redaction is in the news

1280
00:51:46,430 --> 00:51:44,400
recently and I had just talked about

1281
00:51:49,609 --> 00:51:46,440
this in a class that I had given about

1282
00:51:51,710 --> 00:51:49,619
UFOs and I talked about what we learned

1283
00:51:54,890 --> 00:51:51,720
to do in my field is called redaction

1284
00:51:57,650 --> 00:51:54,900
studies so what we're trained to do is

1285
00:52:00,710 --> 00:51:57,660
to undo the redaction like if you're

1286
00:52:03,770 --> 00:52:00,720
given something like um like Saint

1287
00:52:06,049 --> 00:52:03,780
Francis of assisi's picture you know a

1288
00:52:08,630 --> 00:52:06,059
painting of Saint Francis of Assisi how

1289
00:52:10,309 --> 00:52:08,640
do we go back to the original like how

1290
00:52:13,309 --> 00:52:10,319
do we get back to what happened to him

1291
00:52:15,589 --> 00:52:13,319
well we can't actually but we can do a

1292
00:52:17,450 --> 00:52:15,599
good job of figuring it out and so we're

1293
00:52:19,970 --> 00:52:17,460
taught that process and I was trying to

1294
00:52:21,770 --> 00:52:19,980
teach people this in my class how this

1295
00:52:23,750 --> 00:52:21,780
process of redaction works and it's

1296
00:52:26,690 --> 00:52:23,760
self-reduction too and I'll give you an

1297
00:52:30,170 --> 00:52:26,700
example of this okay so we based on what

1298
00:52:33,770 --> 00:52:30,180
we're taught to know in our culture we

1299
00:52:35,690 --> 00:52:33,780
self-redact okay so a lot of people will

1300
00:52:37,910 --> 00:52:35,700
see something that doesn't fit it's kind

1301
00:52:40,190 --> 00:52:37,920
of like the data we see something that

1302
00:52:42,170 --> 00:52:40,200
doesn't fit and then we forget about it

1303
00:52:43,849 --> 00:52:42,180
we go ah you know we see something that

1304
00:52:45,589 --> 00:52:43,859
looks clearly like a UFO and doesn't

1305
00:52:47,750 --> 00:52:45,599
look like a plane and just flying around

1306
00:52:49,549 --> 00:52:47,760
and it's freaking you out and you're

1307
00:52:51,349 --> 00:52:49,559
like you know you forget about it and

1308
00:52:53,690 --> 00:52:51,359
then like years later you're like whoa I

1309
00:52:56,569 --> 00:52:53,700
remember that situation you know that

1310
00:52:57,770 --> 00:52:56,579
happens a lot and so and especially to

1311
00:53:00,349 --> 00:52:57,780
people who've had these experiences

1312
00:53:02,990 --> 00:53:00,359
here's the case just straight up from

1313
00:53:05,750 --> 00:53:03,000
religious studies Catholic history

1314
00:53:09,109 --> 00:53:05,760
it has to do with this woman named

1315
00:53:12,170 --> 00:53:09,119
Junior who was a Greek woman who was in

1316
00:53:14,150 --> 00:53:12,180
the the second century and um

1317
00:53:16,849 --> 00:53:14,160
or sorry she was said to have worked

1318
00:53:18,470 --> 00:53:16,859
yeah no she was in the first century but

1319
00:53:20,809 --> 00:53:18,480
a lot was written about her in the

1320
00:53:24,170 --> 00:53:20,819
second century this is before Rome took

1321
00:53:26,109 --> 00:53:24,180
over Christianity okay and so you've got

1322
00:53:29,569 --> 00:53:26,119
these documents to talk about this woman

1323
00:53:33,349 --> 00:53:29,579
who travels around and does a lot of

1324
00:53:35,750 --> 00:53:33,359
work with with the Apostle Paul and she

1325
00:53:37,790 --> 00:53:35,760
is also called an apostle and she's also

1326
00:53:39,589 --> 00:53:37,800
called a deacon and she's called all of

1327
00:53:41,750 --> 00:53:39,599
these things she's obviously a leader in

1328
00:53:44,270 --> 00:53:41,760
the early Christian Church okay and it's

1329
00:53:47,510 --> 00:53:44,280
all there in the Bible but what happens

1330
00:53:51,829 --> 00:53:47,520
is that when the Bible gets translated

1331
00:53:54,170 --> 00:53:51,839
from Greek to Latin right the people

1332
00:53:55,930 --> 00:53:54,180
this is hundreds of years later the

1333
00:53:59,030 --> 00:53:55,940
people who are doing that translation

1334
00:54:02,270 --> 00:53:59,040
look back and see this person named you

1335
00:54:04,250 --> 00:54:02,280
know Junior and they say okay so she's

1336
00:54:05,809 --> 00:54:04,260
an apostle she works as an apostle and

1337
00:54:07,790 --> 00:54:05,819
you know she's a deacon and she did all

1338
00:54:09,770 --> 00:54:07,800
these things has to be a man

1339
00:54:12,650 --> 00:54:09,780
so they renamed her

1340
00:54:15,170 --> 00:54:12,660
and she became a man for all intents and

1341
00:54:17,690 --> 00:54:15,180
purposes everyone then the Latin Bible

1342
00:54:20,270 --> 00:54:17,700
was translated into vernacular languages

1343
00:54:22,069 --> 00:54:20,280
into German English and so she got

1344
00:54:24,770 --> 00:54:22,079
translated as a man into all those other

1345
00:54:26,870 --> 00:54:24,780
languages right and it wasn't until this

1346
00:54:29,270 --> 00:54:26,880
Century that we or actually last century

1347
00:54:31,370 --> 00:54:29,280
that we found out wait a minute this is

1348
00:54:33,950 --> 00:54:31,380
actually a woman all right now did those

1349
00:54:36,650 --> 00:54:33,960
people do that on purpose I don't think

1350
00:54:38,450 --> 00:54:36,660
so I think that they were Roman and they

1351
00:54:40,430 --> 00:54:38,460
were like you know women just don't have

1352
00:54:42,589 --> 00:54:40,440
that status in our culture therefore

1353
00:54:44,870 --> 00:54:42,599
that can't be a woman and so they just

1354
00:54:47,809 --> 00:54:44,880
changed her name that's called redaction

1355
00:54:49,670 --> 00:54:47,819
and so what our job is is to go

1356
00:54:52,490 --> 00:54:49,680
especially in religion because religion

1357
00:54:54,410 --> 00:54:52,500
is so important right because it

1358
00:54:57,530 --> 00:54:54,420
determines policy it determines how

1359
00:55:01,370 --> 00:54:57,540
people act toward one another we have to

1360
00:55:02,870 --> 00:55:01,380
go back and so for UFO scholarship this

1361
00:55:05,089 --> 00:55:02,880
is one of the most important things that

1362
00:55:07,789 --> 00:55:05,099
we have to learn how to do we cannot

1363
00:55:11,450 --> 00:55:07,799
just accept especially in this age of

1364
00:55:15,170 --> 00:55:11,460
digital media what somebody says is a

1365
00:55:18,049 --> 00:55:15,180
video of a UFO we cannot accept that we

1366
00:55:20,809 --> 00:55:18,059
have to do our due diligence and if we

1367
00:55:22,490 --> 00:55:20,819
don't we're going to be like the people

1368
00:55:23,470 --> 00:55:22,500
who believe Junior was you know we're

1369
00:55:27,109 --> 00:55:23,480
going to have wrong information

1370
00:55:28,250 --> 00:55:27,119
basically we're going to be duped and so

1371
00:55:30,530 --> 00:55:28,260
that's why

1372
00:55:32,930 --> 00:55:30,540
um we we also have to do that for

1373
00:55:34,970 --> 00:55:32,940
ourselves we have to like when the date

1374
00:55:36,770 --> 00:55:34,980
like Gary and I you know we say when the

1375
00:55:38,870 --> 00:55:36,780
data doesn't look right maybe there's

1376
00:55:41,410 --> 00:55:38,880
something about that data that will

1377
00:55:43,010 --> 00:55:41,420
actually solve our problem

1378
00:55:44,809 --> 00:55:43,020
interesting

1379
00:55:47,390 --> 00:55:44,819
thank you for that and yeah it was

1380
00:55:49,370 --> 00:55:47,400
redaction that's not retract I I wrote

1381
00:55:51,530 --> 00:55:49,380
it down wrong so no that's okay it's

1382
00:55:53,329 --> 00:55:51,540
redaction is very important yeah

1383
00:55:54,530 --> 00:55:53,339
absolutely I'm just going to take a

1384
00:55:56,030 --> 00:55:54,540
second to just say a couple of thank

1385
00:55:58,849 --> 00:55:56,040
yous Lisa Bowden thank you for your

1386
00:56:01,010 --> 00:55:58,859
generosity Jimmy the Earthling uh thanks

1387
00:56:03,710 --> 00:56:01,020
Vinnie Diana it's fascinating I agree

1388
00:56:05,569 --> 00:56:03,720
and Science Bob thank you so much he

1389
00:56:08,089 --> 00:56:05,579
says my one regret since meeting Chris

1390
00:56:10,730 --> 00:56:08,099
Bledsoe not meeting Diana and having an

1391
00:56:12,650 --> 00:56:10,740
hour-long interesting conversation thank

1392
00:56:14,089 --> 00:56:12,660
you guys so much I really appreciate the

1393
00:56:17,630 --> 00:56:14,099
support

1394
00:56:19,270 --> 00:56:17,640
um moving on to some more questions

1395
00:56:22,309 --> 00:56:19,280
um

1396
00:56:24,289 --> 00:56:22,319
amveon asks what's the significa what's

1397
00:56:25,250 --> 00:56:24,299
the significance of the two Creations in

1398
00:56:28,190 --> 00:56:25,260
Genesis

1399
00:56:30,650 --> 00:56:28,200
separate creating Gods Global reset

1400
00:56:32,270 --> 00:56:30,660
different human species with us

1401
00:56:37,010 --> 00:56:32,280
and what's the importance of the order

1402
00:56:39,770 --> 00:56:37,020
of Melchizedek Melchizedek yeah

1403
00:56:41,930 --> 00:56:39,780
okay so those are great questions

1404
00:56:44,150 --> 00:56:41,940
um Ambiance so

1405
00:56:45,410 --> 00:56:44,160
um the two creation stories so a lot of

1406
00:56:46,970 --> 00:56:45,420
people actually don't know that are

1407
00:56:49,490 --> 00:56:46,980
there are two creation stories in

1408
00:56:52,130 --> 00:56:49,500
Genesis okay so Genesis is the first

1409
00:56:54,609 --> 00:56:52,140
book of the Bible it's a Hebrew Bible

1410
00:56:56,809 --> 00:56:54,619
and Christian New Testament same book

1411
00:56:59,930 --> 00:56:56,819
sacred tradition for three major

1412
00:57:01,670 --> 00:56:59,940
religions Christianity Islam believe it

1413
00:57:03,530 --> 00:57:01,680
or not is also a sacred tradition for

1414
00:57:06,470 --> 00:57:03,540
them it's not their sacred book but is

1415
00:57:10,190 --> 00:57:06,480
sacred history for them and also um

1416
00:57:13,370 --> 00:57:10,200
Christianity obviously okay so when we

1417
00:57:15,650 --> 00:57:13,380
when we think of creation of the human

1418
00:57:17,510 --> 00:57:15,660
of human species right

1419
00:57:20,210 --> 00:57:17,520
um a lot of people who are religious

1420
00:57:21,589 --> 00:57:20,220
we'll go back and talk about the what

1421
00:57:23,630 --> 00:57:21,599
Catholics call the Catholics don't

1422
00:57:25,549 --> 00:57:23,640
actually take this literally

1423
00:57:27,770 --> 00:57:25,559
um they call it sacred history which

1424
00:57:30,109 --> 00:57:27,780
isn't a literal history it's it's just

1425
00:57:31,370 --> 00:57:30,119
that this was the language they had to

1426
00:57:34,430 --> 00:57:31,380
describe

1427
00:57:36,349 --> 00:57:34,440
um some people and not very many take

1428
00:57:37,490 --> 00:57:36,359
this literally and say that Adam and Eve

1429
00:57:44,089 --> 00:57:37,500
were created

1430
00:57:46,609 --> 00:57:44,099
this time literally then how would this

1431
00:57:49,190 --> 00:57:46,619
you know account for them being created

1432
00:57:51,349 --> 00:57:49,200
in chapter one you know and then also

1433
00:57:53,510 --> 00:57:51,359
chapter two because there are these two

1434
00:57:56,569 --> 00:57:53,520
narratives that are right next to each

1435
00:57:58,730 --> 00:57:56,579
other in the Bible one is with Adam and

1436
00:58:01,490 --> 00:57:58,740
Eve and the other is with if you take

1437
00:58:03,650 --> 00:58:01,500
the Hebrew and kind of translated these

1438
00:58:06,230 --> 00:58:03,660
human creatures okay

1439
00:58:08,329 --> 00:58:06,240
um who are created together

1440
00:58:10,789 --> 00:58:08,339
um as companions

1441
00:58:14,270 --> 00:58:10,799
um so what is the significance of that

1442
00:58:15,470 --> 00:58:14,280
in terms of human history is that what

1443
00:58:16,910 --> 00:58:15,480
the question was

1444
00:58:19,849 --> 00:58:16,920
because I can tell you what the

1445
00:58:22,730 --> 00:58:19,859
significance of it is for gender

1446
00:58:25,730 --> 00:58:22,740
relationships

1447
00:58:27,530 --> 00:58:25,740
just what's the importance yeah so okay

1448
00:58:29,870 --> 00:58:27,540
I think that it's really important that

1449
00:58:32,030 --> 00:58:29,880
we go back and we look at I mean if this

1450
00:58:34,670 --> 00:58:32,040
is your sacred tradition if you happen

1451
00:58:36,829 --> 00:58:34,680
to be Jewish or Christian you better

1452
00:58:38,870 --> 00:58:36,839
know these books okay so I tell my

1453
00:58:40,250 --> 00:58:38,880
students that they come to my class and

1454
00:58:41,870 --> 00:58:40,260
they don't they've never read the Bible

1455
00:58:43,789 --> 00:58:41,880
but then they call themselves Christians

1456
00:58:45,289 --> 00:58:43,799
and I said let's take your Bible and

1457
00:58:47,210 --> 00:58:45,299
bring it and we're going to read it so

1458
00:58:49,670 --> 00:58:47,220
that you can be familiar with the the

1459
00:58:51,410 --> 00:58:49,680
religion that you call your own so you

1460
00:58:53,750 --> 00:58:51,420
know I think that

1461
00:58:56,089 --> 00:58:53,760
um that there are these two forms of

1462
00:58:59,030 --> 00:58:56,099
creation and I think we can also when we

1463
00:59:00,950 --> 00:58:59,040
do redaction studies on Genesis we also

1464
00:59:04,730 --> 00:59:00,960
need to understand that

1465
00:59:06,650 --> 00:59:04,740
that there was already creation stories

1466
00:59:09,349 --> 00:59:06,660
within the culture at the time like the

1467
00:59:11,270 --> 00:59:09,359
Babylonian narratives of creation which

1468
00:59:13,069 --> 00:59:11,280
looked so similar

1469
00:59:15,530 --> 00:59:13,079
um that they almost like it almost looks

1470
00:59:18,289 --> 00:59:15,540
like genesis takes from that and it

1471
00:59:20,809 --> 00:59:18,299
possibly could from Babylonian Genesis

1472
00:59:23,270 --> 00:59:20,819
stories as well creation stories as well

1473
00:59:26,329 --> 00:59:23,280
um I think that

1474
00:59:29,450 --> 00:59:26,339
one thing that we do note in the Hebrew

1475
00:59:32,690 --> 00:59:29,460
Bible new uh Old Testament uh for

1476
00:59:35,630 --> 00:59:32,700
Christians is that God doesn't appear to

1477
00:59:37,970 --> 00:59:35,640
be uh God refers to God's self in the

1478
00:59:39,589 --> 00:59:37,980
plural okay and there seems to be like a

1479
00:59:41,390 --> 00:59:39,599
council

1480
00:59:44,109 --> 00:59:41,400
um so there are a lot of things that

1481
00:59:49,130 --> 00:59:44,119
references to other types of holy beings

1482
00:59:51,829 --> 00:59:49,140
that appear to be actors at the time of

1483
00:59:54,410 --> 00:59:51,839
the creation of humans and I think that

1484
00:59:57,589 --> 00:59:54,420
all of that should be

1485
00:59:59,750 --> 00:59:57,599
um considered uh when you you know

1486
01:00:01,670 --> 00:59:59,760
within a person's religion now Catholics

1487
01:00:03,589 --> 01:00:01,680
will just say it doesn't really matter

1488
01:00:04,789 --> 01:00:03,599
because it's sacred history so we don't

1489
01:00:06,170 --> 01:00:04,799
have to actually literally believe in

1490
01:00:09,410 --> 01:00:06,180
any of that

1491
01:00:11,870 --> 01:00:09,420
um but I think that that even if even if

1492
01:00:13,490 --> 01:00:11,880
you take it metaphorically it's

1493
01:00:17,569 --> 01:00:13,500
important because

1494
01:00:21,589 --> 01:00:17,579
um what is being shown here is that

1495
01:00:25,190 --> 01:00:21,599
there's a multiplicity of beings not

1496
01:00:27,109 --> 01:00:25,200
just you know a God and a man and a

1497
01:00:29,870 --> 01:00:27,119
woman right we're talking about a

1498
01:00:31,490 --> 01:00:29,880
multiplicity of intelligent beings

1499
01:00:33,230 --> 01:00:31,500
um and I think that that's pretty

1500
01:00:35,270 --> 01:00:33,240
important to know

1501
01:00:37,069 --> 01:00:35,280
yeah absolutely

1502
01:00:39,589 --> 01:00:37,079
um I've had multiple people both hearing

1503
01:00:41,930 --> 01:00:39,599
the live chat and also via other avenues

1504
01:00:44,569 --> 01:00:41,940
ask me if you'd come across and what

1505
01:00:45,950 --> 01:00:44,579
your thoughts are on the Anunnaki

1506
01:00:49,130 --> 01:00:45,960
right

1507
01:00:51,410 --> 01:00:49,140
um okay yes I have and again so this is

1508
01:00:53,390 --> 01:00:51,420
going to be outside of my Wheelhouse in

1509
01:00:55,849 --> 01:00:53,400
terms of what I you know what I feel

1510
01:00:57,890 --> 01:00:55,859
like I could credibly talk about

1511
01:01:00,710 --> 01:00:57,900
um but again what I want to get to is

1512
01:01:03,289 --> 01:01:00,720
just this question that was just raised

1513
01:01:04,849 --> 01:01:03,299
about the multiplicity of beings you

1514
01:01:09,589 --> 01:01:04,859
know when you when you actually start to

1515
01:01:11,930 --> 01:01:09,599
read the very old texts of the Bible

1516
01:01:15,410 --> 01:01:11,940
um that you do find and it's not just

1517
01:01:17,990 --> 01:01:15,420
the Bible too it's the old texts of

1518
01:01:19,250 --> 01:01:18,000
sacred literature of a lot of different

1519
01:01:21,530 --> 01:01:19,260
Traditions

1520
01:01:24,470 --> 01:01:21,540
um in my class I referred a lot to the

1521
01:01:26,930 --> 01:01:24,480
Japanese tradition because there there

1522
01:01:28,910 --> 01:01:26,940
was a uh there was a man who was

1523
01:01:31,130 --> 01:01:28,920
actually I believe he's an engineer or a

1524
01:01:32,270 --> 01:01:31,140
mathematician but a friend of mine Marie

1525
01:01:34,130 --> 01:01:32,280
Market

1526
01:01:36,170 --> 01:01:34,140
um her mother's Japanese and Marie's

1527
01:01:39,230 --> 01:01:36,180
right now in Japan and she's doing

1528
01:01:43,609 --> 01:01:39,240
research on this tradition of a lady

1529
01:01:47,210 --> 01:01:43,619
okay who comes down and in various ways

1530
01:01:49,730 --> 01:01:47,220
um and lots of Records about her and

1531
01:01:51,950 --> 01:01:49,740
also the multiplicity of beings within

1532
01:01:55,250 --> 01:01:51,960
their culture as well so all of the

1533
01:01:57,410 --> 01:01:55,260
Sacred literature for uh uh you know and

1534
01:01:59,630 --> 01:01:57,420
even the oral traditions of indigenous

1535
01:02:01,670 --> 01:01:59,640
cultures have references to a

1536
01:02:05,150 --> 01:02:01,680
multiplicity of intelligent beings like

1537
01:02:07,609 --> 01:02:05,160
star people and things like that so I

1538
01:02:09,730 --> 01:02:07,619
think that once a person starts to

1539
01:02:13,309 --> 01:02:09,740
engage in this type of historical

1540
01:02:16,250 --> 01:02:13,319
research it's really hard to not see

1541
01:02:19,309 --> 01:02:16,260
that people have always felt that there

1542
01:02:21,589 --> 01:02:19,319
were a multiplicity of beings that you

1543
01:02:23,690 --> 01:02:21,599
know that if there is a God who created

1544
01:02:26,630 --> 01:02:23,700
all of this you know that you know or

1545
01:02:28,849 --> 01:02:26,640
God is one of among these these others

1546
01:02:31,010 --> 01:02:28,859
as well which I know is heretical to a

1547
01:02:33,349 --> 01:02:31,020
lot of people but um

1548
01:02:35,029 --> 01:02:33,359
that's what the text a lot of times

1549
01:02:38,089 --> 01:02:35,039
that's what the text say and you know

1550
01:02:40,309 --> 01:02:38,099
you kind of have to lose a lot of uh

1551
01:02:41,630 --> 01:02:40,319
dogmatism when you be when you start to

1552
01:02:43,670 --> 01:02:41,640
read this stuff

1553
01:02:45,289 --> 01:02:43,680
yeah absolutely

1554
01:02:47,210 --> 01:02:45,299
now have you had any conversations

1555
01:02:48,890 --> 01:02:47,220
outside of the sort of Catholic and

1556
01:02:50,750 --> 01:02:48,900
Christians or world into the more of the

1557
01:02:52,430 --> 01:02:50,760
Sikh and Muslim and all the other kind

1558
01:02:55,069 --> 01:02:52,440
of religions about

1559
01:02:57,289 --> 01:02:55,079
UFOs or disclosure and how they mean

1560
01:02:59,569 --> 01:02:57,299
yeah have you come across much

1561
01:03:01,430 --> 01:02:59,579
difference in how in their reactions

1562
01:03:03,589 --> 01:03:01,440
their willingness to talk to it and what

1563
01:03:05,770 --> 01:03:03,599
how they may react if something like

1564
01:03:08,809 --> 01:03:05,780
this were to be announced globally

1565
01:03:11,390 --> 01:03:08,819
at this point there's an international

1566
01:03:14,089 --> 01:03:11,400
group of academics from various

1567
01:03:15,069 --> 01:03:14,099
Traditions Islam

1568
01:03:20,089 --> 01:03:15,079
um

1569
01:03:22,430 --> 01:03:20,099
you know American religions Catholicism

1570
01:03:24,589 --> 01:03:22,440
uh protestantism

1571
01:03:26,510 --> 01:03:24,599
uh Hinduism

1572
01:03:28,609 --> 01:03:26,520
Buddhism

1573
01:03:30,589 --> 01:03:28,619
um and and of course I know lots of

1574
01:03:32,990 --> 01:03:30,599
professors within the study of these

1575
01:03:35,569 --> 01:03:33,000
religions who are doing this research

1576
01:03:37,130 --> 01:03:35,579
and who are kind of doing similar work

1577
01:03:38,750 --> 01:03:37,140
that I'm doing in the sense that they're

1578
01:03:41,750 --> 01:03:38,760
going back and they're using redaction

1579
01:03:43,970 --> 01:03:41,760
scholarship to look at what's there and

1580
01:03:45,770 --> 01:03:43,980
using that their you know because you

1581
01:03:47,990 --> 01:03:45,780
have to have a lot of the languages you

1582
01:03:50,089 --> 01:03:48,000
know he speaks Paulie or who who reads

1583
01:03:51,710 --> 01:03:50,099
Paulie right and so a lot of people are

1584
01:03:53,870 --> 01:03:51,720
trained and so then they're they're

1585
01:03:55,370 --> 01:03:53,880
refocusing right now a lot of those

1586
01:03:56,750 --> 01:03:55,380
people don't actually want to be known

1587
01:03:58,549 --> 01:03:56,760
yet and there's they don't want to put

1588
01:04:01,010 --> 01:03:58,559
their name on their scholarship and get

1589
01:04:03,109 --> 01:04:01,020
their books out there because it's so

1590
01:04:05,450 --> 01:04:03,119
new and they're afraid of

1591
01:04:08,150 --> 01:04:05,460
um they're afraid of the stigmatized

1592
01:04:10,130 --> 01:04:08,160
nature of the knowledge uh and I don't

1593
01:04:11,569 --> 01:04:10,140
blame them to tell you the truth so I

1594
01:04:14,270 --> 01:04:11,579
think maybe we'll

1595
01:04:17,210 --> 01:04:14,280
that's going to happen as we continue on

1596
01:04:18,650 --> 01:04:17,220
with with what's happening right now the

1597
01:04:19,970 --> 01:04:18,660
more the United States kind of talks

1598
01:04:22,609 --> 01:04:19,980
about it I think the more people are

1599
01:04:25,309 --> 01:04:22,619
going to be okay with coming out about

1600
01:04:27,470 --> 01:04:25,319
talking about it but but yeah there are

1601
01:04:29,150 --> 01:04:27,480
a lot of people how would they react I

1602
01:04:32,029 --> 01:04:29,160
think that most of them especially if

1603
01:04:34,250 --> 01:04:32,039
they're academics are looking at it as

1604
01:04:35,990 --> 01:04:34,260
this is the way it is so you know what

1605
01:04:38,690 --> 01:04:36,000
kind of reaction can you have other than

1606
01:04:40,670 --> 01:04:38,700
that okay well this has been described

1607
01:04:42,049 --> 01:04:40,680
in these books for centuries and now all

1608
01:04:44,210 --> 01:04:42,059
of a sudden maybe our government is

1609
01:04:46,190 --> 01:04:44,220
talking about it and it looks like a

1610
01:04:48,349 --> 01:04:46,200
similar phenomena

1611
01:04:50,329 --> 01:04:48,359
um maybe it's just okay you know maybe

1612
01:04:54,049 --> 01:04:50,339
we shouldn't get so upset about it I

1613
01:04:58,130 --> 01:04:56,510
yeah absolutely

1614
01:05:00,529 --> 01:04:58,140
just wanted to bring that back up sorry

1615
01:05:02,990 --> 01:05:00,539
Jay thank you so much my friend uh

1616
01:05:05,990 --> 01:05:03,000
really appreciate it

1617
01:05:07,549 --> 01:05:06,000
oh love Jada bits and for everyone Jay

1618
01:05:10,910 --> 01:05:07,559
is actually putting on a conference soon

1619
01:05:12,410 --> 01:05:10,920
alongside James Ian Dolly which uh I

1620
01:05:14,510 --> 01:05:12,420
recommend people go and check out some

1621
01:05:15,890 --> 01:05:14,520
great speakers

1622
01:05:18,230 --> 01:05:15,900
um one last question that I wanted to

1623
01:05:19,490 --> 01:05:18,240
ask before we we start to wrap up is uh

1624
01:05:21,770 --> 01:05:19,500
I just wanted to know how you felt

1625
01:05:24,650 --> 01:05:21,780
seeing Gary Nolan actually speak about

1626
01:05:26,450 --> 01:05:24,660
his experience publicly because I I'm

1627
01:05:28,549 --> 01:05:26,460
guessing you were aware of what he'd

1628
01:05:30,529 --> 01:05:28,559
seen and then now it's it's out there

1629
01:05:32,329 --> 01:05:30,539
and I think it it made a lot of people

1630
01:05:34,450 --> 01:05:32,339
feel good A lot of people feel good

1631
01:05:37,789 --> 01:05:34,460
hearing it from someone like Gary

1632
01:05:40,190 --> 01:05:37,799
yeah Gary's like I mean I don't have

1633
01:05:41,690 --> 01:05:40,200
Heroes because I I just think it's a bad

1634
01:05:43,970 --> 01:05:41,700
idea because you know they can never

1635
01:05:45,410 --> 01:05:43,980
never live up to what you see and you

1636
01:05:48,829 --> 01:05:45,420
shouldn't do that to people but he

1637
01:05:52,789 --> 01:05:48,839
actually is like a hero to me and um

1638
01:05:56,150 --> 01:05:52,799
he described his experiences to me early

1639
01:05:59,029 --> 01:05:56,160
on when I first met him and

1640
01:06:01,609 --> 01:05:59,039
um you know he's got a lot of

1641
01:06:03,109 --> 01:06:01,619
he's got a lot of friends and a lot of

1642
01:06:04,670 --> 01:06:03,119
friends who have had these experiences

1643
01:06:06,890 --> 01:06:04,680
and he knows a lot of people have had

1644
01:06:08,569 --> 01:06:06,900
these experiences we had a special

1645
01:06:12,170 --> 01:06:08,579
Conference of

1646
01:06:14,690 --> 01:06:12,180
um people who carry moles was there he's

1647
01:06:16,549 --> 01:06:14,700
a Nobel prize-winning chemist where a

1648
01:06:19,010 --> 01:06:16,559
lot of scientists had these experiences

1649
01:06:22,730 --> 01:06:19,020
and related them to their

1650
01:06:25,430 --> 01:06:22,740
um their science you know and and it was

1651
01:06:30,049 --> 01:06:25,440
a very intense conference frankly

1652
01:06:33,770 --> 01:06:30,059
um and I thought that I think Gary's

1653
01:06:37,069 --> 01:06:33,780
Brave and I think that

1654
01:06:39,470 --> 01:06:37,079
I you know I can't understand like he

1655
01:06:41,329 --> 01:06:39,480
gets a lot of flack from people and I

1656
01:06:43,370 --> 01:06:41,339
don't understand that I mean he's Brave

1657
01:06:45,470 --> 01:06:43,380
like you know I'd like to see first of

1658
01:06:48,410 --> 01:06:45,480
all I know him personally and he's a

1659
01:06:50,690 --> 01:06:48,420
friend so I know how hard he works and I

1660
01:06:52,309 --> 01:06:50,700
promise you I have five teenagers and my

1661
01:06:55,430 --> 01:06:52,319
job you know I feel like my job is

1662
01:06:58,010 --> 01:06:55,440
really hard and he he works harder than

1663
01:07:00,109 --> 01:06:58,020
me he kicks butt he works all the time

1664
01:07:02,510 --> 01:07:00,119
and he has hundreds of people working

1665
01:07:05,210 --> 01:07:02,520
for him in Labs at Stanford University

1666
01:07:09,289 --> 01:07:05,220
this guy goes all over the world doing

1667
01:07:11,750 --> 01:07:09,299
science and he's brilliant and

1668
01:07:14,750 --> 01:07:11,760
people need to respect that you know and

1669
01:07:16,970 --> 01:07:14,760
people need to respect what he's saying

1670
01:07:18,890 --> 01:07:16,980
um because he doesn't have to

1671
01:07:20,690 --> 01:07:18,900
he's already you know he's already at

1672
01:07:23,329 --> 01:07:20,700
the top of his field he doesn't have to

1673
01:07:25,910 --> 01:07:23,339
do anything and he's doing this and I

1674
01:07:28,069 --> 01:07:25,920
think that that's Brave absolutely I I

1675
01:07:29,630 --> 01:07:28,079
for one appreciate him so much I've been

1676
01:07:32,089 --> 01:07:29,640
lucky enough to have a conversation with

1677
01:07:33,589 --> 01:07:32,099
him and yeah I could speak to him all

1678
01:07:35,690 --> 01:07:33,599
day I could say the same about yourself

1679
01:07:39,230 --> 01:07:35,700
I could speak to you all day but let's

1680
01:07:43,849 --> 01:07:39,240
finish this off with uh you and your new

1681
01:07:46,789 --> 01:07:43,859
upcoming book now is it about UFOs yes

1682
01:07:48,770 --> 01:07:46,799
okay so it is about UFOs yes

1683
01:07:53,349 --> 01:07:48,780
um but it is what it so it's about

1684
01:07:57,829 --> 01:07:53,359
people who've had experiences of UFOs

1685
01:08:01,849 --> 01:07:57,839
and and it also what I do is I take this

1686
01:08:03,589 --> 01:08:01,859
idea this kind of like ancient idea of

1687
01:08:05,990 --> 01:08:03,599
what I call protocols because what I

1688
01:08:08,089 --> 01:08:06,000
noticed was that a lot of people who I

1689
01:08:10,010 --> 01:08:08,099
was you know through the writing of

1690
01:08:12,109 --> 01:08:10,020
American Cosmic I was exposed to a lot

1691
01:08:14,870 --> 01:08:12,119
of very highly creative and

1692
01:08:16,370 --> 01:08:14,880
high-functioning people like Tyler not a

1693
01:08:20,390 --> 01:08:16,380
normal person at all

1694
01:08:22,070 --> 01:08:20,400
like incredibly brilliant incredibly

1695
01:08:24,649 --> 01:08:22,080
high functioning and they all had

1696
01:08:27,349 --> 01:08:24,659
protocols every one of them and as a

1697
01:08:29,149 --> 01:08:27,359
person who studies religion I noted that

1698
01:08:31,309 --> 01:08:29,159
protocols have been around for thousands

1699
01:08:33,709 --> 01:08:31,319
of years in fact people like you know

1700
01:08:35,870 --> 01:08:33,719
communities of monks nuns have always

1701
01:08:37,189 --> 01:08:35,880
practiced protocols and in fact if you

1702
01:08:39,890 --> 01:08:37,199
look at the history of kind of

1703
01:08:42,169 --> 01:08:39,900
innovation a lot of people were protocol

1704
01:08:43,789 --> 01:08:42,179
practicing people and so I thought you

1705
01:08:45,649 --> 01:08:43,799
know maybe I need to start practicing

1706
01:08:47,209 --> 01:08:45,659
protocols myself but I also have to do

1707
01:08:50,630 --> 01:08:47,219
the science behind this to try to figure

1708
01:08:52,430 --> 01:08:50,640
out what these are and so what I did was

1709
01:08:53,870 --> 01:08:52,440
and this is how the research usually

1710
01:08:56,570 --> 01:08:53,880
works I know that a lot of people know

1711
01:09:01,010 --> 01:08:56,580
this once you start to open up to

1712
01:09:02,990 --> 01:09:01,020
something that is powerful you don't the

1713
01:09:04,669 --> 01:09:03,000
research comes to you you know you don't

1714
01:09:07,550 --> 01:09:04,679
even have to go looking for it so I

1715
01:09:09,289 --> 01:09:07,560
started to meet people that

1716
01:09:11,809 --> 01:09:09,299
um practice these protocols but also

1717
01:09:13,910 --> 01:09:11,819
knew the science behind them and so my

1718
01:09:15,349 --> 01:09:13,920
next book is called uh well I'm calling

1719
01:09:17,870 --> 01:09:15,359
it now the resurrected but it's gonna

1720
01:09:19,849 --> 01:09:17,880
the name is gonna change it always does

1721
01:09:21,289 --> 01:09:19,859
um so presses so the pre so it's already

1722
01:09:23,209 --> 01:09:21,299
in contract

1723
01:09:24,590 --> 01:09:23,219
um but I'm still writing it and

1724
01:09:26,510 --> 01:09:24,600
basically what it is going to be about

1725
01:09:29,709 --> 01:09:26,520
out is going to be about these people

1726
01:09:33,649 --> 01:09:29,719
who went through these these experiences

1727
01:09:36,590 --> 01:09:33,659
and were able to use them and utilize

1728
01:09:39,590 --> 01:09:36,600
them to uh create just kind of like

1729
01:09:40,490 --> 01:09:39,600
Tyler so basically it's a whole it's a

1730
01:09:43,970 --> 01:09:40,500
whole

1731
01:09:47,390 --> 01:09:43,980
bunch of you know like views of people

1732
01:09:50,149 --> 01:09:47,400
like this that are actually creating a

1733
01:09:53,269 --> 01:09:50,159
future for us like a future that we want

1734
01:09:54,830 --> 01:09:53,279
that is livable frankly and these people

1735
01:09:56,930 --> 01:09:54,840
are mission people they have missions

1736
01:09:59,229 --> 01:09:56,940
and so it's it's basically about them

1737
01:10:01,910 --> 01:09:59,239
and what I'm doing is I'm

1738
01:10:03,950 --> 01:10:01,920
contextualizing it within the socratic

1739
01:10:05,990 --> 01:10:03,960
tradition which is the tradition of

1740
01:10:07,550 --> 01:10:06,000
Socrates which you can see comes right

1741
01:10:09,950 --> 01:10:07,560
through Christianity Judaism

1742
01:10:11,570 --> 01:10:09,960
Christianity on through to the Western

1743
01:10:13,490 --> 01:10:11,580
tradition

1744
01:10:15,649 --> 01:10:13,500
um and I'll also be talking about a

1745
01:10:17,390 --> 01:10:15,659
little bit about Japanese what is

1746
01:10:19,189 --> 01:10:17,400
happening in Japan right now which is

1747
01:10:22,070 --> 01:10:19,199
really interesting with respect to UAP

1748
01:10:24,110 --> 01:10:22,080
UFOs and so that's what it's about it's

1749
01:10:27,110 --> 01:10:24,120
about basically it's more of kind of

1750
01:10:29,750 --> 01:10:27,120
like a manual for you know what I found

1751
01:10:33,590 --> 01:10:29,760
out about the lives of these people and

1752
01:10:36,290 --> 01:10:33,600
what how the experiences change them and

1753
01:10:38,390 --> 01:10:36,300
how we can actually utilize these these

1754
01:10:39,830 --> 01:10:38,400
this information just as you know normal

1755
01:10:42,649 --> 01:10:39,840
people

1756
01:10:44,030 --> 01:10:42,659
absolutely amazing I cannot wait to read

1757
01:10:46,610 --> 01:10:44,040
it

1758
01:10:48,649 --> 01:10:46,620
um well Diana thank you so much thank

1759
01:10:51,350 --> 01:10:48,659
you Vinnie I really enjoyed it yeah

1760
01:10:53,450 --> 01:10:51,360
thank you and please stay in touch and

1761
01:10:55,610 --> 01:10:53,460
for everyone in the live chat thank you

1762
01:10:57,050 --> 01:10:55,620
so much for it looked like a great chat

1763
01:10:58,970 --> 01:10:57,060
I would have been in it if it wasn't me

1764
01:11:01,310 --> 01:10:58,980
up here and do the interview to everyone

1765
01:11:02,870 --> 01:11:01,320
that donated thank you so much all the

1766
01:11:06,590 --> 01:11:02,880
great questions I'm sorry I couldn't get

1767
01:11:08,570 --> 01:11:06,600
to them all but thank you guys and I'm

1768
01:11:10,790 --> 01:11:08,580
gonna be back I think next week with

1769
01:11:13,010 --> 01:11:10,800
Matthew Roberts to discuss the gimbal

1770
01:11:14,930 --> 01:11:13,020
event from 2015 but for now everyone

1771
01:11:16,490 --> 01:11:14,940
please take care and I will see you soon